(5e) San Francisco by Night

[RadioFreeDeath]

So this post is going to basically be a place to put my thoughts as I prepare my campaign for January as well as get help with some ideas. I am going to run a San Fran by night game in 5e for my group. I like canon, so, as best I can, I am going to try and update the canon. Theres a few places I am going to have to butcher and retcon some things (KOTE I am looking at you) but I think I can make it work.

First, what we know so far, let me know what I am missing

From Beckett's Jyhad diary we know that Vannevar had four options of what to do in San Fran. From LA by night we know four he selected "Abandon San Fran and go all in on Los Angeles" This means we likely have a lot of people leaving San Fran for LA.

So who is Prince? Probably Jochen Van Nuys, but who knows. How many camarilla stayed in san fran? How many left? areas I need to fill out.

Sebastian Melmoth is still around as well.

The anarch free states stretch as far north as san fran, So i imagine most of the southern metropolitan area is anarch controlled.

What is the camarilla take on san fran? Are either of the archons still active in the area? Thats Robin and Bellamy.

Now for the really controversial part. The Kindred of the East. I think what I am going to do is treat them the same way as I do the drowned in my head. Still following all the same rules as kindred but considering themselves to have a different origin story than Caine. So basically I think I will retcon them to just be another group of Kindred. The New Promise Mandarinate will just be another sect. I will convert the dharmas into bloodlines. I will need to decide how I want to do that. I will make the KOTE sects just sects focused on Golconda and their own paths towards that. How would you convert the dharmas over?

I think the KOTE will probably be more of a rump state. Sort of like the crusader states of old, they have found themselves slowly pushed back with no eastern support. Anarchs and camarilla have broken them down piece by piece until they are a bare sliver of their previous power.

What is the status of Garcia? Still a traitor to the New Promise Mandarinate?

What other factors should I keep in mind?

[omenseer]

Apparently there was some kind of SI attack on San Fran which broke the tenuous hold that the Wan Kuei had over the city.

The way I envision SF is that it is in a bit of a fluid state. No one faction claims control of the city. Most of the Elder/Ancestors of the Wan Kuei left back for the home countries leaving a lot of young Wan Kuei having to make their own way with what allies they can muster. A lot of Cam elders probably left with Thomas. So there is a choice opportunity to take the city for who ever is willing to try. Although the specter of the SI still lingers requiring caution.

[RadioFreeDeath]

Apparently there was some kind of SI attack on San Fran which broke the tenuous hold that the Wan Kuei had over the city.

The way I envision SF is that it is in a bit of a fluid state. No one faction claims control of the city. Most of the Elder/Ancestors of the Wan Kuei left back for the home countries leaving a lot of young Wan Kuei having to make their own way with what allies they can muster. A lot of Cam elders probably left with Thomas. So there is a choice opportunity to take the city for who ever is willing to try. Although the specter of the SI still lingers requiring caution.

Do you know what book that is so I can go pull it?

[CTPhipps]

I am of the mind that the Wan kuei don't apparently exist anymore and there's been a massive retcon.

[RadioFreeDeath]

I am of the mind that the Wan kuei don't apparently exist anymore and there's been a massive retcon.

I essentially agree with this idea. But I want to keep the events fairly similar. Hence my plan to just ret con them into another sect like the ashirra, laibon and drowned

[omenseer]

Do you know what book that is so I can go pull it?

I don't know it was mentioned in LA by Night and I am extrapolating from there.

[omenseer]

I am of the mind that the Wan kuei don't apparently exist anymore and there's been a massive retcon.

There have been mention of Chinese vampires. So chances they are there, just not in the form they were.

[Mezryan]

I’m planning a San Francisco chronicle (maybe podcast as well?) too. I few heavily from the SF by night sourcebook,and with Vannevar in LA, I think I’ll keep Sarah Winder as prince with Jochen Van Nuys as a potential foil. I’m posting my premise here and I’d love to hear what people think.

“Premise: the New Promise Mandarinate has fallen. The Quincunx has decided the Great Leap Outward has failed and has recalled the Wan Kuei back to the Middle Kingdom. After a long meeting that lasted most of the night, Jiejie Li wrote her last passage and met the eye of heaven. Not long after that, the Ukiyo Uji fell to the machinations of the akuma who in turn fell to a clean up crew of wan kuei left behind to erase any residual eastern presence. San Francisco is once again up for grabs.

Once upon a time, it would be a no-brainer that the City would go to the Ivory Tower, and if you had asked Sarah Winder ten years ago, she would have told you the same. But with the departure of the Brujah and the Gangrel, plus two major Anarch enclaves in Santa Cruz and Oakland, nothing’s off the table.

So now the City is once again divided between factions and there’s no handy treaty to keep the peace. Add on that there are rumors that the Committee for Public Vigilance is back and this time they’re out for vitae and the whole place becomes a powder keg waiting to blow. Will San Francisco become a shining city on the hill for either faction? Or is it London all over again?”

[RadioFreeDeath]

I’m planning a San Francisco chronicle (maybe podcast as well?) too. I few heavily from the SF by night sourcebook,and with Vannevar in LA, I think I’ll keep Sarah Winder as prince with Jochen Van Nuys as a potential foil. I’m posting my premise here and I’d love to hear what people think.

”

I like it! Similiar to what i'm thinking. KOTE is pretty much wiped out. The city is up for grabs. no really stable factions. Perfect spot to stick the poor players into.

[Mezryan]

I like it! Similiar to what i'm thinking. KOTE is pretty much wiped out. The city is up for grabs. no really stable factions. Perfect spot to stick the poor players into.

Exactly! Plus I’m letting them choose if they’re going to be anarch or cam and they’ll have to take the city district by district

[Tristissima et alia]

I've been running a very off-and-on Oakland by Night game through most of shelter in place with a couple #ActualBayAreans. I've a big interest in sites of cultural interchange and mixture. Syncretism is a big thing for me, so my attempt at subverting the Yellow Menace themes of San Francisco by Night is for San Francisco to have settled into a mixed polity, wherein the various factors buttressing the invasion-and-resistance have broken under the sheer pressure of trying to survive, especially as the kine struggle after 2008. The Wicked City wu (was that it?) and that one wu that was trying to merge the cultures even in the book, and Sabbat machinations providing an easy mutual enemy, and by 2012 San Francisco owed allegiance not to the Ivory Tower or the Sabbat or the Anarchs or the Quincunx. It is its own thing, struggling for identity and resources.

The East Bay is a split city, with both Prince Amanda and Anarch Barons like the Brujah Mary Ellen Pleasant. And what few Sabbat are left in the Bay now that the Gehenna Crusade started. The South Bay is the Camarilla's stronghold and is held in an iron grip therefore, and the North Bay . . . well, the North Bay as a whole is the least vampire-friendly area in the Bay. There are definitely some hotspots, though ~ it is the primary Anarch area in the Bay.

[Thoth]

I think one of the easiest ways to deal with the Kuei-jin, while waiting for WW to figure it out is to change their mission statement. Rather than having the KJs trying some dumb expansionist bs, just have them act as guardians over their respective china towns, japan towns, little korea's, etc. It was part of the lore that Kuei-jin were rising in these far off lands due to the accumulation of asians in their tight knit communities, thus the need to export groups to find and teach them.

As for what the camarilla, sabbat, and anarchs are doing in San Francisco... that really comes down to your game needs, now that the Kuei-jin are no longer an occupying force. Though even in the oWoD it was never explained how the wards on the bridges kept the Kuei-jin from heading south via the highways or simply used a row boat to get across the bay.

Interestingly enough if you want a different way of looking at the Bay Area then you consider the way new arrivals show up in waves over time. Currently a lot of middle eastern or near asian immigrants are setting shop in the bay area, so it is likely that many of the more rare vampire bloodlines or Kuei-jin heretical dharmas will be represented, if not gaining real traction here. A Rising Phoenix dharma wouldn't always fit in in many parts of asia, but they would more or less blend into the wood work in Berkley or Oakland, though so would a Thrashing Dragon. On the other hand that could lead to something like a hipster Nagaraja doing his best Hannibal Lector impression while running a sushi restaurant..... perhaps it would be best to skip such things.

Just my two cents.

[Thoth]

The East Bay is a split city, with both Prince Amanda and Anarch Barons like the Brujah Mary Ellen Pleasant. And what few Sabbat are left in the Bay now that the Gehenna Crusade started. The South Bay is the Camarilla's stronghold and is held in an iron grip therefore, and the North Bay . . . well, the North Bay as a whole is the least vampire-friendly area in the Bay. There are definitely some hotspots, though ~ it is the primary Anarch area in the Bay.

As an "actualbayarean" I have to admit that such an over simplification of the geography involved more or less stream rolls over the cultural differences between the cities that make up each section of the bay area, and honestly doesn't take into consideration of logistics of holding territory.

This is especially important given the amount of watershed land that is being maintained between many of the cities, thus all sorts of shifters, spirits, and other critters are potentially lurking around. Given the mix of cities and nature areas, there is an argument that a mix of city and country Gangrel more or less control most the Bay Area now that they are independent.

[Shakanaka]

Many people are saying that the Wan-Kuei would somehow "lose" influence or lose occupied control of San Francisco... This is very generous and certainly unrealistic considering the fact almost ALL of the Elders of every sect/polity of the Kindred society are affected by the Beckoning. Without any of the heavy hitters or the ones with adept management of domain keeping, the Wan-Kuei who aren't affected by this event would realistically be gaining MORE influence in the region. All the abandoned subterfuged-controlled mortal companies, all the abandoned real estates, all the mortal political connections that the Elder Cainites have crafted in that region would be completely open for seizure- its VERY unrealistic for the Wan-Kuei/Kuei-Jin somehow collapse and not probe this sudden shift in power-balance.

Though I would expect with the ""unpopular"" nature that Kindred of the East unfortunately has between the writers and the general fanbase, they'll come up with some gonzo smackdown to somehow explain away the Wan-Kuei expansion.

[Thoth]

Many people are saying that the Wan-Kuei would somehow "lose" influence or lose occupied control of San Francisco... This is very generous and certainly unrealistic considering the fact almost ALL of the Elders of every sect/polity of the Kindred society are affected by the Beckoning. Without any of the heavy hitters or the ones with adept management of domain keeping, the Wan-Kuei who aren't affected by this event would realistically be gaining MORE influence in the region. All the abandoned subterfuged-controlled mortal companies, all the abandoned real estates, all the mortal political connections that the Elder Cainites have crafted in that region would be completely open for seizure- its VERY unrealistic for the Wan-Kuei/Kuei-Jin somehow collapse and not probe this sudden shift in power-balance.

Though I would expect with the ""unpopular"" nature that Kindred of the East unfortunately has between the writers and the general fanbase, they'll come up with some gonzo smackdown to somehow explain away the Wan-Kuei expansion.

While I do enjoy the Kuei-jin, the fact that they can not control their reproduction rates or who is reborn always meant that at best a Kuei-jin Elder is Goblin Slayer and the Cainites are the Goblins. Sure the K/D ratio will be horrifyingly out of balance, except for the fact that it takes decades for new Kuei-jin to pop up, be captured, trained, and then let loose on the enemy. On the other hand the Kindred can just mass embrace a group of mercenaries and replace their losses within days with equally skilled soldiers.