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Paths, and other Sabbat related shenanigans

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  • Paths, and other Sabbat related shenanigans

    How do you see the Sabbat appearing in V5? How do you see Paths being integrated with the current morality system? For the first question I have no idea, for the second, well it would need an overhaul, as Tenets and Convictions do not function for paths, at least imho.
    Last edited by Taggie; 11-13-2020, 02:42 PM.

  • #2
    I think they'll be even more inhuman. But perfectly capable of reason and rational thought.
    I believe they'll be changed by the War,but some aspects will be recognizable.

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    • #3
      Sabbat are all dead. The Smart ones joined the Cam. The rest got killed in shipping crates en route to the middle east.
      Occasionally a few neonates will cause trouble and claim they're the sabbat.


      Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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      • #4
        Honestly, my biggest fear is it will go like this:

        Sabbat: Yeah, we're back from the Gehenna War. Everything is fine. We retook most of our cities. No long term consequences from this. We're the same as we were in Revised.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
          Honestly, my biggest fear is it will go like this:

          Sabbat: Yeah, we're back from the Gehenna War. Everything is fine. We retook most of our cities. No long term consequences from this. We're the same as we were in Revised.


          you know my opinion on Revised Sabbat..I'm hoping for the inhuman fanatics to be back properly, with a total overhaul of morality to support paths (for instance high Path should not force you to look human or want sex)

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          • #6
            don't think the paths would work in v5,

            alot of sabbat paths obsess over power, transcendence and whatnot,
            V5 doesn't allow vampires to be...powerful
            the former paths would be too much for a v5 character to handle

            and it's gonna be hard reconciling pathists and the threat of the second Inquisition,
            either the Inquistion dies or the paths die

            so, I guess the new paths will be much less inhuman and much less complexe than the old ones


            -

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            • #7
              My thought was that the whole thing was a trap. The Cam moved into the Mexico and South America and got taken out by traps left behind and a mass ambush. The Sabbat then goes on a massive push into North America with initial successes and things look bad for the Cam, but it's the Second Inquisition that stops them, because they're way too flagrant and easier to spot. This would at least give them back some of their traditional territory, but update them for the metaplot.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Pleiades View Post
                don't think the paths would work in v5,

                alot of sabbat paths obsess over power, transcendence and whatnot,
                V5 doesn't allow vampires to be...powerful
                the former paths would be too much for a v5 character to handle

                and it's gonna be hard reconciling pathists and the threat of the second Inquisition,
                either the Inquistion dies or the paths die

                so, I guess the new paths will be much less inhuman and much less complexe than the old ones


                Then why call them Sabbat?

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                • #9
                  As a person who likes to put far too much thought into my dumb games, I like my logistically and sociologically viable factions.
                  The Sabbat can't meet that in V5.

                  But then again, I could say the same for the Anarchs and the Cam and the vampires of the medieval and antiquity. Too many messy criticals.


                  Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Taggie View Post

                    Then why call them Sabbat?
                    well, why even call them vampires?
                    v5 vamps are pathetic (and I thought Revised vamps were pathetic)


                    -

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                    • #11
                      The fact of the matter is that the Sabbat were and IS an important aspect of VTM. It is a direct duality from the Camarilla that wishes to feign its humanity, while the Sabbat is one that accepts its undead state in its totality and breeching off the semblances of the former. The clash of interests and peternatural philosophies are just simply a better hook than what is found in the whole Camarilla vs Anarch conflict where its just simply the Elders of the Anarchs wanting to usurp the Elders of the Camarilla- that's it. Certainly the Elders of the Sabbat sect want to do the same, but they as I mentioned before have a different sortie of eristic view of how undead life should be handled. The Sabbat is the most compelling antagonist- or protagonist (remember, protagonists don't necessarily have to be good) for players who wanted to play traditional Vampires who visibly don't go by human conventions and rule the night through their innate, but controlled predatoriality.

                      I think it was a grave misstep to ungracefully try and soft-retcon them out considering how big of a facet it encompassed the lore and dynamic of the game. Its one of the fundamental reason why I can't like V5 barring my other thoughts on it. The whole reason for the Sabbat being in this state in V5 from my opinion of inductive reasoning is that the people who have written up V5 wanted it more close to Requiem when these two series aren't compatible whatsoever. With the scrapping of Humanity for the V5 morality system, of course the Sabbat couldn't have been introduced in the baseline because of how the Path system is structured (Humanity pre-V5 is also a form of Path too, which is a good outlier of analysis to draw from of why the radical differences between V1-20 and Requiem/V5 are apparent), it simply couldn't BE in the game as is.

                      Another factor is Touchstones- which is really nonsensical barring Paths too since it's solely based on an external component that has nothing to do with the INTERNALITY of the Beast. Vampires are so long lived its just plain stupid to have this Touchstone system, one that forces you to be attached to some form of human for whatever reason, making Vampires in WoD some form of abominable GONZO Yandere tropes. This couldn't be more exemplified being malaise in the Sabbat which distinctly does not care for any morality of human thought, just advancing their vampiric one and they definitely don't care about humans by itself too. It'll be hard to justify Sabbat with Touchstones.

                      Not only that its no secret that V5 for whatever inane reason wants to focus the shift to one style of play or cordoned VTM into one aspect. Want to be Elders? Can't do it. Want to be Sabbat? Can't do it. Want unique and interesting bloodlines? Can't do it. Want to have chronicles center around more global network of conspiracy fabricated by the Jyhad of slumbering or even active Methuselahs? Can't do it.. By V20 before V5 it was crafted to multiple avenues and tributaries of what you wanted to do.. Now.. its just not. Now you're pidgeonholed into playing as Neonates, Elders are gone even if you BE a Neonate so there is no interesting NPCs you can render services to, taking mechanics from VTR when it shouldn't be the case at all, Disciplines simplified and short-stacked for whatever reason, the desecration of some old Disciplines as well to boot, etc. People excuse this by saying "its supposed to be a soft-reboot," ...this however is unacceptable to me and spits on the face of many.

                      My hope (and it probably won't come to fruition at all) is that they fully scrap this morality system.. because it just doesn't work. The problem is that they have tried to mess mechanics from VTR into oWoD when it isn't meant to be that way. Maybe they will rework somethings, but I hope that we get the old morality system.. If your reintroducing the Sabbat, you can't ignore it.
                      Last edited by Shakanaka; 11-13-2020, 03:45 PM.


                      Jade Kingdom Warrior

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
                        The whole reason for the Sabbat being in this state in V5 from my opinion of inductive reasoning is that the people who have written up V5 wanted it more close to Requiem when these two series aren't compatible whatsoever.
                        I wouldn't say that. (Well, maybe with Cult of the blood Gods, the requiemization has some merit to it) V5 has looked at requiem and clearly decided that, while it likes some ideas, it clearly doesn't want to copy requiem (In many ways I think the accurate copies of requiem mechanics would've made for better mechanics, since I personally believe V5 has adopted the flaws of requiem without the merits)

                        You should all remember that negativity towards V5 is unacceptable on this forum. You would all do well to make it sound like something very specific is not to your personal tastes, rather than criticize the whole edition.
                        Feel free to bash Revised though.


                        Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If we're talking about Sabbat and its reintroduction, discussion of V5 can't heartily be sidestepped because its obvious that in this edition some measures were taken to kill them off. All their major territories in the New World being seized (majority of holding transfers coming from the Anarchs no less, instead of the Camarilla that has the most experience fighting the Sabbat toe-to-toe), all them being petered off the the Middle-East for whatever reason (in lieu of the Beckoning of somesort), one of the major political anchors of the sect (Lasombra) defecting to the Camarilla enmasse when it makes no complete sense; effectively knee-capping the Sabbat, etc. I just wonder how WoD is going to fix the mess the Sabbat has been mired in metawise.


                          Jade Kingdom Warrior

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                          • #14
                            Maybe the Sabbat have worked out how to be V1 vampires and will come back in a glorious reconquest to gobble up the near-human v5 vampires? Now we'll only play as Sabbat!



                            Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

                              well, why even call them vampires?
                              v5 vamps are pathetic (and I thought Revised vamps were pathetic)
                              Vampires in V5 are more powerful than any vampires up until 7th generation or below. Far more powerful in fact.

                              Given 7th generatiuon or below are rare, I'm not sure what this complaint is about.


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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