Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Xaviar’s magic hobbie

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Xaviar’s magic hobbie

    In New Orleans By Night it is written that Xaviar absorbs the energy of a Caern. He is not a thaumaturgist.
    How can he do that? And more importantly, what does he gain?

  • #2
    That might be one of those things that was quietly retconned out in later editions of the rules. That doesn’t sound consistent with what I know about Xaviar from V20.

    What do you think?


    “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

    Comment


    • #3
      When New Orleans By Night was written in 1994, the World of Darkness was still in its infancy and the game embraced all kinds of gonzo crossovers. The book even had Sam Haight in it. We weren't given stats for Justicar Xavier back then. We can probably assume if they had, he would have Thaumaturgy and a special ritual that allowed him to drain a caern and establish what benefit that provided for him.

      Flash forward a few years to 1999 when Children of the Night came out and provided stats for Xavier, the game was much different. Crossover was now a bad word, and many things were purged from each of the game lines. We can probably assume that Xavier's secret reason for calling regular conclaves in New Orleans was one of them. Indeed, the Revised game wasn't interested in the idea at all there was a long standing tradition of regular conclaves hosted by Xavier - something I always found fascinating given its potential impact on Camarilla governance locally, in North America, and perhaps worldwide. Instead, all they were interested in was using him as a reason to get the Gangrel to leave the Camarilla (an idea that was never popular in any gaming group I knew) for metaplot reasons.

      So if we want to turn the back the clock, we probably need to give Xavier different stats. And invent our own reason as to how he learned this knowledge, and what benefits it gets him.

      It might be actual occult secrets he learned from his own or from a mentor. We could use the old Oghma discipline as a basis for it. Or it might be a result of some kind of demonic investment or Wyrm ritual. It might even be some kind of spirit pact - though the spirit that made the pact would need to be skeevy. I prefer the first scenario though. It all depends on how it fits your conception fo the character and your setting.

      As for powers, I would look to the benefits one gets in Werewolf from using the Rite of the Opened Caern - by opening the caern the Garou get extra dice in whatever abilities or powers that caern type provides. So you'd need to know what kind of caern type he found and therefore what abilities he derives from it. In Werewolf, opening the caern gives you bonus dice for only 24 hours but it doesn't damage the caern at all. So I imagine Xavier's ritual drains the caern more, but provides longer lasting benefits to him - perhaps for the three years between conclaves inbetween which the inactive caern "recharges". I'd pick powers that Xavier could use very often so he sees the ongoing benefit - maybe extra Soak Dice or Willpower instead of actual abilities. Those would be subtle manifestations, but obviously be hugely beneficial for any vampire especially in Xavier's position.

      Comment


      • #4
        If I were to have Xaviar do it now, I would say it was some kind of magical device he uses for the purpose. That way it serves as a McGuffin; the PCs can try to take the device from him or break it. When properly used at a cairn, or mage node, it grants the vampire using it a temporary boost to generation, as though they had committed diablre.

        Comment


        • #5
          Being a gangel he probably slips into the soil and takes a dirt nap *drum snare*


          You've been playing around the magic that is black
          But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you for all your answers.
            Black Fox, very relevant.

            The magic device is a good idea for me, Ogham too, but too exclusive to the Lhiannans in my opinion. It could probably be something he got during his stay in Africa, with his mentor Inyanga maybe.
            This kind of ritual in which he would sink into the earth of Caern with the object for several nights, would act as a kind of resourcing.
            This would make it easier for him to avoid the frenzy, to fight against his beast which is more and more present.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Richard View Post
              And more importantly, what does he gain?
              He gets a ton of lupines homicidally angry at him. Or, if they can't find him, any and all nearby vampires.

              More seriously, this behavior would have started a war with the local lupines, and possibly reinforcements from more distant septs. Silent Striders across the continent might converge to join in. If any local vampires 'survived' said war, surely they would want to know what moron started it.

              If he robbed a Black Spiral Dancer caern instead of a Gaian one, he has the Black Spirals and their various Wyrm allies equally pissed off instead of the Gaian lupines. They might be willing to negotiate for "compensation", though.

              If he desecrated a chantry, he may have a cabal of Mages out for his head - I don't know how seriously Mages take this sort of behavior.
              Last edited by Erinys; 12-02-2020, 01:25 AM.


              I am extremely literal-minded and always write very literally. If I don't say something explicitly, please never assume I implied it. The only exception is if I try to joke.
              Exalted and cWoD book list. Exalted name-generators, Infernal and 1E-2.5E homebrew from many authors.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
                When New Orleans By Night was written in 1994, the World of Darkness was still in its infancy and the game embraced all kinds of gonzo crossovers. The book even had Sam Haight in it. We weren't given stats for Justicar Xavier back then. We can probably assume if they had, he would have Thaumaturgy and a special ritual that allowed him to drain a caern and establish what benefit that provided for him.

                Flash forward a few years to 1999 when Children of the Night came out and provided stats for Xavier, the game was much different. Crossover was now a bad word, and many things were purged from each of the game lines. We can probably assume that Xavier's secret reason for calling regular conclaves in New Orleans was one of them. Indeed, the Revised game wasn't interested in the idea at all there was a long standing tradition of regular conclaves hosted by Xavier - something I always found fascinating given its potential impact on Camarilla governance locally, in North America, and perhaps worldwide. Instead, all they were interested in was using him as a reason to get the Gangrel to leave the Camarilla (an idea that was never popular in any gaming group I knew) for metaplot reasons.
                Children of the Night also had Pariah from the Vampire-Werewolf crossover story set in Chicago, and the Technocracy played a huge role in the Week of Nightmares. I honestly can't think of why Xaviar's history wasn't fully taken into account, even considering that VRev minimized crossovers. Justin would have known it for sure even if the writer didn't.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Another inconsistency, in Children Of the Night, he is described as an unsatiable lupine hunter to this day. . His very presence stresses whatever tenuous relations might exist between Werewolves and Kindred in any given province. The Lupins call him "Kills-Our-Brothers" in their songs and stories. But in New Orleans By Night, every 3 years, he reviews the treaty with the garous on the territories. As the city gets further and further away and "absorbs" the caerns. It doesn't look like the same person at all.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think maybe they just forgot about New Orleans by Night.


                    “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      How could he have a treaty with them when he's draining caerns?


                      I am extremely literal-minded and always write very literally. If I don't say something explicitly, please never assume I implied it. The only exception is if I try to joke.
                      Exalted and cWoD book list. Exalted name-generators, Infernal and 1E-2.5E homebrew from many authors.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        When you just go by a synopsis, it obscures a lot of details on what is actually happening. You have to actually read the text to understand what Xavier is doing in New Orleans. Details are important. The relevant section on this in NObN is quite small and on page 9.

                        First, the caern Xavier taps is unknown to the Garou. Most of the involvement with the Lupines and vampires in the city is in regards to a caern in Bayou St John's within the municipal border of New Orleans. The land that caern was on was considered to be Lupine property by "treaty" (This is probably best seen as an agreement rather than any document). However, as the city spread, the caern became part of the city. Then mages appeared and took it over. Afterwards lots of confusion. The politics of this is what Xavier is supposed to handle because Clan Gangrel were the ones who originally negotiated peace with the Uktena of the Bayou. Basically the city's vampires helped the Uktena drive off both Wyrmbringer tribes and Black Spiral Dancers. Later the caern was lost to Mages who seem to still be in control of it. The Uktena want the vampires help in getting back their caern. This is what all their diplomacy is about. I don't think vampires other than Xavier actually know there is a caern or what a caern is. All they know is that Uktena have claims on territory now inside the city. I think the Uktena obviously are not telling the vampires anything about a caern. They are keeping it generic about territory. So this may be one reason the issue is festering for so long, the Uktena are actually talking around their real concern.

                        This is NOT the caern that Xavier taps. That is a different caern he found "nearby". The Garou do not know about this one. It was likely a caern of some other Changing Breed and has become lost. We know nothing about this caern or its history. It's probably some inactive minor caern that's been lost to the ages. No idea how Xavier found it while the Garou didn't, but we'll handwave that away. So the Garou don't know about this at all.

                        Second, we don't know that Xavier is actually "draining" it in the sense he's killing. The book uses a variety of terms. "Sucking power from the site", "draws power from this caern", and "siphon much more power form this site" are all used. While all describe the same thing, the terms in each case can be interpreted differently. "Draws power" is much more neutral than "sucking power". We don't actually know he is "draining" the caern. He might just be "tapping" or "opening" it like Garou do when they perform the Rite of the Opened Caern. So Xavier might not even be damaging it. While the sourcebook mentions Xavier's "plans" I don't think it ever reveals what those plans are.

                        Third, the reason for his trienniel conclaves is so that he has a reason to visit this unknown caern, but not draw suspicion for staying in the city. Holding a regular conclave is supposed to be a pretext. No one knows his real reason for visiting.

                        There's a lot you can argue about in this description in order to make things work. It doesn't take into consideration a lot of knowledge we now know about caerns written after 1994. But as written, the Garou don't know what Xavier is doing and therefore don't take any action. As far as they're concerned, he is an essential person if they ever want to recover the caern at Bayou St John's. If they attack or kill him, they undermine their goal.

                        I wouldn't be surprised if the person who wrote up Xavier's description in Children of the Night did not read NObN, or only skimmed it. He probably just had a synopsis and started making assumptions, and didn't know the new details he invented would make NObN non-sensical.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks. That's interesting and weird stuff. What do the vampires get in exchange from the Uktena? Is it just "we won't go on a rampage with fire" or more?


                          I am extremely literal-minded and always write very literally. If I don't say something explicitly, please never assume I implied it. The only exception is if I try to joke.
                          Exalted and cWoD book list. Exalted name-generators, Infernal and 1E-2.5E homebrew from many authors.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "Leave our ancestral territory alone and we won't make war on you" would be a pretty good incentive for agreeing if I were one of the vampires in New Orleans. Essentially costs them nothing and spares them a whole lot of trouble.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              In the second edition clanbook gangrel it mentions that gangrel are capable of learning garou rites. Perhaps this was a nod to that with Xavier? I learned some garou rites to siphon power from a caeren. Not a thing in revised though.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X