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Headcanons on Native American Bloodlines

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  • #16
    I think Mictlantecuthli.should be brought back. Do what they did in the original Ravenloft novel and say that he won.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Dwight View Post

      If god was going around handing out vampire curses as franchises they wouldn't be bloodlines but whole clans
      The Native American "vampires" were not made by the angry, vengeful god of Abraham and Isaac. They were made by some other angry, vengeful god.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

        The Native American "vampires" were not made by the angry, vengeful god of Abraham and Isaac. They were made by some other angry, vengeful god.
        That is the other option.

        Stepping "back" from Caine and making it so European and African vampires believe it but no one else necessarily does.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Raziel View Post
          what are your headcanons/homebrews (V20 or V5) on them and do you have some clans/bloodline you wrote up yourself besides the ones written in the book?
          As far as my own head canon goes, I will preface by noting that I stopped using the Generation system over a decade ago (and imported Requiem's Blood Potency system in its place). The vampires of Eurasia (and to an extent Africa) recognize that there are thirteen lineages of Kindred, each descended from a nigh-godlike founder. Beyond that, exactly where those Thirteen come from is subject of constant debate. During the Dark Ages, European Kindred generally believed that they were fallen angels. Before this, it was usually believed that they were gods of one religion or another. A lot of Indian Kindred still believe that they are/were the Rakshasa created by the breath of Brahma and banished to earth by Vishnu for their bloodlust, for example. And so on. In my games, the idea of the biblical Cain as the original proto-vampire is largely exclusive to the followers of the Path of Cain within the Sabbat. Likewise with Lilith. (This is further complicated by the fact that those Kindred historians who've delved into ancient history keep running into possible evidence that history prior to about 2000 - 1500 BC may not exist, at least not in the way we think of it.)

          In addition, I only really use six Bloodlines (as opposed to Clan variations, which I call Strains). Two of them are the fallen remains of the Salubri and Cappadocians. Two were clearly created by vampire experiments, the Gargoyles and the Kiasyd. And two are total mysteries, the Daughters of Cacophony (who seem to be some harbinger of the Final Nights) and the Tlacique, who don't seem to conform to any of the known Clans and vehemently reject the idea that they are descended from any of the Thirteen. Kindred scholars endlessly debate if they are some previously unknown 14th Clan or just some ancient offshoot that was in isolation for so long they no longer have any connection to their origins. (And vampires being vampires, these arguments sometimes turn into decades long blood feuds.)

          My Tlacique claim that they come from the ancient city of Teotihuacan, where they (or more usually their founders/ancestors) ruled as gods and are the basis for the gods worshiped in Mesoamerica. During the Aztec empire, they had several Houses, each claiming descent from and service to a specific god, but this system collapsed with the Spanish invasion and ensuing plagues. Those who believe the Tlacique are evidence for previously unknown Founders suggest that each of these Houses may have been its own clan, but this is another of those things that is hotly debated.

          Kindred in the Andes regions of South America have had similar experiences with what are known as the Supay, an apparent indigenous Bloodline (or Clan) of vampires claiming to be servants of the lord(s) of Ukhu Pacha, the Incan underworld.

          In North America, various vampires have reported encounters with unknown vampires who bear a strong resemblance to legends of the chenoo and wendigo (or the wechuge of the Pacific Northwest), as well as ones that resemble the Deer Woman and the Cherokee legends of Spearfinger and Dressed-in-Stone. But there aren't enough of them - at least that Kindred have encountered - to say if they are new Bloodlines (or unknown Clans) or just oddities in the same vein as the Walking Man, the Midnight Express, the 13th Floor, and other legends.


          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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          • #20
            https://www.storytellersvault.com/pr..._0_45638_0_0_0

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            • #21
              My own version of the Laibon after reading KotEK is that they are an entirely separate species of vampire whose origins only later became conflated with the myth of Caine (probably because their founder had a name that sounded kind of like Caine). I think this because there are sufficient differences between the two origin stories to make me think they’re two different events. But I’m open to having my mind changed.

              Random note: In Dead Magic the founder of the Laibon is given the name Cogaz and is described as coming from the San and Khoikhoi cultures of the Kalahari Desert in Southern Africa.


              “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

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              • #22
                I will mention that I don't use the term "Laibon" for African vampires, as it's a real world term for the priests/shaman/spiritual leaders of the Maasai people of Kenya and Tanzania. It's sort of like all the vampires of Europe calling themselves Druids or something.


                What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                  I will mention that I don't use the term "Laibon" for African vampires, as it's a real world term for the priests/shaman/spiritual leaders of the Maasai people of Kenya and Tanzania. It's sort of like all the vampires of Europe calling themselves Druids or something.

                  From a purely european perspective, it makes sense. They don't want to use 'african vampire' in normal parlance because that's got some risk attached and african Cainite is arguably worse. People like the convenience, and words in some places can mean completely different things in another and mistranslations happen all the time. It's not as good as 'cathayans'

                  Better "European" terms:
                  Alkebulans, Aethopians (derived from supposed ancient names for sub-saharan africa) , Austral, Meridonal (Ancient terms for "South")


                  Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
                  There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                    I will mention that I don't use the term "Laibon" for African vampires, as it's a real world term for the priests/shaman/spiritual leaders of the Maasai people of Kenya and Tanzania. It's sort of like all the vampires of Europe calling themselves Druids or something.
                    Thank you. Idk that.


                    “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                      I will mention that I don't use the term "Laibon" for African vampires, as it's a real world term for the priests/shaman/spiritual leaders of the Maasai people of Kenya and Tanzania. It's sort of like all the vampires of Europe calling themselves Druids or something.

                      It's not as if there is a clan named after the Spanish word for "witch", after all...


                      Learn more about the hidden history of the British Isles in England Will Burn.
                      Find out about the struggle to control medieval Syria in The Gates of Damascus.

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                      • #26
                        What I disliked about the Laibon, the treatment of Africa, was how disconnected it was from the Jyhad. It was basically presented a nature preserve of clans and bloodlines.

                        The Second City was in Africa according to White Wolf. Maybe the first city as well. And that makes sense. Mankind evolved in Africl, it has always had the greatest number of parasites evolved for the human species. Africa should be where the Jyhad ran deepest, and where it had its oldest roots.

                        Although I did love the notion that the Samedi were a remnant of South American kindred that is basically wearing protective coloration and presenting as a bloodline of an extinct European clan.

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                        • #27
                          I wrote something of a Native American bloodline based on a Victorian Age game we played a while back. It's in the form of a V5 loresheet, but it has all the basic info. Mind you, this one isn't in any way removed from Caine, and is descended from a Gangrel Viking who visited America nearly a millennium ago, so it's not really a Bloodline so much as it is a somewhat distinct line of Gangrel.

                          Children of the Raven and the Wolf
                          Gangrel only


                          The get of an ancient blood witch, this bloodline is perhaps the oldest Cainite brood to populate the north of the American continent. It’s scion, a native American woman so old and alien she is more a spirit than a Vampire, came into the night at the fangs of a Viking Gangrel pursuing its destiny on the longboats of explorers pushing the boundaries of the known world. The norseman is long dead, devoured by its prodigal Childe, the den mother of the Children of the Raven and the Wolf. She endured alone for centuries, communing with the spirits of the land and pursuing the tribes of kine as they hunted endless herds of bison across the primordial landscape. Her name was already lost then, but when the Europeans came, they called her Genevieve, the woman of the tribes. The Camarilla hated her, an unnatural predator with no regard for secrets and masks. When the Sabbat came, she allowed it, even hunted with them for a time. But her blood was old and powerful, and the gluttonous shakari turned on her. Her childer, many and diverse and with broods of their own, still young and foolish, scattered to the winds, some tamed by the Ivory Tower and others joining packs and salivating for their mother’s blood. Through it all she has endured, practicing her fetishistic witchcraft in the hearts of endless forests, forests she has roamed for so long she is as one with the trees and beasts that call them home.
                          Genevieve practices animistic arts that were old and strange when she still breathed. The nature of her shamanism can only be guessed at, but when combined with the ancient power of her Vitae, the old witch spouts prophecies and prowls the very dreams of her descendants. Her childer, too, carry such power in their blood, though few are so in tune with their Beasts to understand it. True to their name, the animal forms these Gangrel take tend to be those of the wolf and raven, and Genevieve herself is rumored to spend most of her time as a massive flock of ravens, scattered across the dark Northern skies.

                          1. Native Blood
                          The Children of the Raven and the Wolf are a diverse brood, coming from many nationalities and backgrounds. Likewise, members of the brood have never seen eye to eye on the issues of sects. Genevieve herself once belonged to the Sabbat, while one of her most prolific Childer was a Prince in Boston for a time. Yet others run wild with Anarch gangs or ignore the sect war entirely by living as Autarkis. Whatever the case, their lineage is treated with respect, whether by old European Gangrel or mongrel pups on the brink of thin-bloodedness. You receive a two die bonus on any attempts to intimidate Gangrel of other broods and you have the equivalent of one dot of Status with all Vampires of your Clan who know your heritage, at least until you alienate them.

                          2. Roaming Wolf
                          Though forced to exist in cities, the blood of this brood yearns for a more primitive time, one when beasts like you would run free in the deep forests, solitary and wild. You too have heeded the call, perhaps adapting to a nomadic lifestyle, or simply taking what time you have to roam the wilderness surrounding your city. Some older kindred with this compulsion relocate to the forest entirely, hunting animals and rarely appearing as anything other than wolves. Regardless, the wild is your home, and you may treat the forests or plains surrounding your city as a one dot Haven for the purposes of being spotted or surveilled and noticing danger. Sleeping there will still be an issue unless you can meld with the earth.

                          3. Dreamspeaker
                          Dreaming is a long forgotten concept for most Vampires, their daily sleep being more akin to a temporary death empty of all perception. Those of Genevieve’s blood attest otherwise, many of them noting strange, incomprehensible visions haunting them as they slumber. These dreams vary in nature, sometimes being nothing more than a vague perception, as though one is seeing through the eyes of some predator on the hunt, but there are days when sleep brings stranger portents, messages and warnings gleamed from the entrails of elk and man. Such power is innate to Old Jenny’s blood, and many of her Childer carry the capacity for it. You are one such pup, having listened to the call of the totemic spirits tied to your line. Once per story, you may perform a ritual that will allow you to enter the dreams of a member of your brood. The experience is hazy and psychedelic, allowing for communication in symbols of the message you wish to convey, rather than casual conversation.

                          4.
                          Path of the Beast
                          A tribalistic hunter gatherer already in life, Genevieve was never subject to conventional morality as we know it. Her convictions were of balance, of the circle of life and the cold cruelty of nature. A wolf feeds to survive and feels no remorse in the act. While at Hunger 3 or higher, a Gangrel with this ability never incurs a loss of Humanity when killing to satiate their hunger. This only applies when hunting your prey as a beast would using the Alleycat predator type, or when Riding the Wave in a Hunger Frenzy.

                          5. The Broodmother
                          Genevieve has always been here, since before any white man ever set foot in North America. A shaman in life, she has danced with the spirits of the forest and the night, she watched them wane and suffer as the settlers came, watched her people slaughtered and enslaved and faced the onslaught of Old World kindred with their knives and wicked smiles. She has always been here, and her progeny sleep beneath the earth under ancient sycamores in every corner of the vast American North. Whispers say she sees through the eyes of every raven and wolf roaming her cold land. Understanding this allows a Gangrel of her line to reach out through the blood, attracting Old Jenny’s attention. Calling upon her grants you a five dot Mawla in the form of this beastly Methuselah. Make no mistake, however, as Genevieve is not one to call upon lightly. Doing so more than once per story would surely invoke her wrath, and doing it without good reason and a tribute of blood will only end with you as helpless prey.
                          Last edited by BodhiofUr; 12-12-2020, 08:25 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by James_Willoughby View Post
                            It's not as if there is a clan named after the Spanish word for "witch", after all...
                            I would suggest Serbo-Croatian as a better alternative. "Brujah" obviously doesn't work in Castilian Spanish (spelling bruja with an -h ending is simply alien to the language), but as luck would have it, brujah is a legitimate word in Serbo-Croatian (see the imperfect tense of brujati in the link above). Instead of trying to come up with Spanish roots for the Brujah and making up some bullshit about witches when the clan has nothing to do with sorcery, I like the idea of tying the Brujah to the politically volatile region of the Balkans (which everybody knows historically as the powder keg of Europe).

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Elphilm View Post
                              I would suggest Serbo-Croatian as a better alternative. "Brujah" obviously doesn't work in Castilian Spanish (spelling bruja with an -h ending is simply alien to the language), but as luck would have it, brujah is a legitimate word in Serbo-Croatian (see the imperfect tense of brujati in the link above). Instead of trying to come up with Spanish roots for the Brujah and making up some bullshit about witches when the clan has nothing to do with sorcery, I like the idea of tying the Brujah to the politically volatile region of the Balkans (which everybody knows historically as the powder keg of Europe).

                              I think you're missing the point that "Brujah" was literally an adaption of the game designers of bruja, back in the 1990s, when the game was first designed. I mean, this wasn't a secret at the time. There is a running issue that pretty much all fictional names are somewhat goofy if you think too hard about them.


                              Learn more about the hidden history of the British Isles in England Will Burn.
                              Find out about the struggle to control medieval Syria in The Gates of Damascus.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Trollroot View Post
                                What I disliked about the Laibon, the treatment of Africa, was how disconnected it was from the Jyhad. It was basically presented a nature preserve of clans and bloodlines.

                                The Second City was in Africa according to White Wolf. Maybe the first city as well. And that makes sense. Mankind evolved in Africl, it has always had the greatest number of parasites evolved for the human species. Africa should be where the Jyhad ran deepest, and where it had its oldest roots.

                                Although I did love the notion that the Samedi were a remnant of South American kindred that is basically wearing protective coloration and presenting as a bloodline of an extinct European clan.
                                True, but the Second City was in Egypt and the First City in the Middle East. The Laibon (for lack of a better name) were primarily affiliated with sub-Saharan Africa.

                                I actually like your idea. I’m just bored af and playing devil’s advocate. Trollrooting, if you will 😊.

                                Again, I really like your last paragraph, but it contradicts established canon that the Samedi are a bloodline of the Cappadocians/Hecata. Are you saying that all that stuff about the Baron is fake?
                                Last edited by Penelope; 12-12-2020, 11:32 PM.


                                “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

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