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  • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
    Anarchs can totally controlled. They're children in need of good parents. Besides the Lasombra are pretty individualistic. They fit the Anarchs better than the Anarchs do.
    Didn't Vitel become the baron of D.C, also they had a *whole* two pages back in the revised anarch book. Take that new Tizimice


    You've been playing around the magic that is black
    But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

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    • I would need to double check, but if memory serves me right Vitel is an Anarch in the sense that he is not Camarilla. IIRC he just wanted to built his new empire and if he needs to call himself anarch to achieve that, so be it. But maybe someone with a better memory can help me out here.

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      • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
        I really, really like Lasombra antitribu.
        But V5 has screwed them over totally, the ones already in the cam are fucked, the ones joining are fucking themselves. How do they break the Vauldrie? How do they... It's just an objectively bad deal. There's a ripe, easy option with the Anarchs. Give em some time and they could probably make a new sect or otherwise reform the anarchs to something of their liking.
        Why exactly has V5 screwed the Lasombra antitribu over? I cant find any reference in CbN that implicates that they have lost any presige. On the contrary the Descendant of Montano Loresheet four Dot lets you keep your Status in every other Cam Domain in your Country (where others would loose at least one dot) because they "have not forgotten where you truly stand".

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        • Originally posted by TakeoChan View Post
          I would need to double check, but if memory serves me right Vitel is an Anarch in the sense that he is not Camarilla. IIRC he just wanted to built his new empire and if he needs to call himself anarch to achieve that, so be it. But maybe someone with a better memory can help me out here.
          He's an Anarch in that he is officially part of the Movement and supports it with Washington D.C money according to a recent canon tabletop video session.

          However, Marcus is obviously a man who doesn't give a crap about any ideology beyond, "It's mine."

          He's basically embodying what some posters have said that Lasombra would take over the Anarch Movement and use it for their own ends.

          Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
          Anarchs can totally controlled. They're children in need of good parents. Besides the Lasombra are pretty individualistic. They fit the Anarchs better than the Anarchs do.
          And we all know how childer treat their sires. With good old fashioned diablerie.

          Mind you, that's why the Lasombra had to flee in the first place.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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          • Originally posted by TakeoChan View Post

            Why exactly has V5 screwed the Lasombra antitribu over?
            not speaking for MWIS, this is just my take

            the former antitribu were people to whome you said "yes" because you couldn't say "no",
            they were better than you, and they had nothing to prove,
            they had the high blood (low gen), the were competent lasombra, and they did your job and the whole camarilla thing better than you

            what's more, they won't tell you to do stuff they can't do themselves,
            the Prince of Milan used Archons to clean up sabbat, but when sabbat attacked elysium, he would sometimes do the cleaning himself

            the new camarilla lasombra, however, act as if the camarilla is doing them a mercy,
            saving them from some doom or other,
            they are treated as second rate citizens as if having the whole amici noctis and killing their elders wasn't enough to give themselves credibility


            -

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            • Imagine being confused for one of these... morons, when your line has been in the Camarilla since the founding.
              Also, from a players perspective, it kinda sucks to have the Storyteller want you to be one of the rabble when you want to play someone actually competent. Look, I get it, sometimes playing an idiot is fun, sometimes playing a character that's the but-of-all-jokes is fun. But when you wanna play your idea of -a competent lasombra- and the storyteller has looked at V5, decided competent lasombra antritribu are all unreachable elders and you'll have to play a defect masochist... No thank you.

              Also you guys know anarch states aren't actually... successful or ideologically driven, right? Most anarchs don't wanna change the system they just wanna change the people. Most anarch states become despots or ganglands. The Camarilla and Sabbat are kinda like the CIA where the moment something that doesn't fit their worldview starts looking successful they'll sabotage it, but if it's a shitheap they'll parade it around and allow it to continue. Don't know if it's still true in v5 since the Camarilla decided to give up and go home but from what I've read, it's probably more true.

              Also Ventrue are super charming people. Toreador too. a lot of you seem to be under the mistaken impression that they act like asshats with a stick up their butt all the time to neonates. Nah, they're the Neonate's friends. They're working in the best interests of the city. Sure, sometimes they have to get on the high chair and make decrees, but elysium is more often a social gathering than a legal court. I guess too many people are watching dramas and want to RP this kind of thing, but the reality of a king's court is not that severe, and fuedalism wasn't that hidebound
              Lasombra aren't that much worse. Sure they don't have an average of 4 charisma like the aforementioned clans, but just because they have Dominate doesn't mean they're using it all the time on other vampires.


              Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
              There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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              • Originally posted by Pleiades View Post
                whenI ask people why they chose Tremere over any other clan or any other blood mage,
                they usually respond that Tremere started from nothing and managed to own everyone else,
                they are a clan that works and had to work for what they get rather than a clan who inherited their tallent from bloodlines and antideluvians

                that's what makes them likeable to most players
                So most players see they reflect entrepreneur values, and thus are likeable?

                This is the first time I've heard anything like that. Sorry, but I would really need proof, not a "when I ask" thing. Like, a survey on the comuinity worldwide, before believing *that's* the reason most pick Temere over other blood mages or clans.

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                • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                  Imagine being confused for one of these... morons, when your line has been in the Camarilla since the founding.
                  Also, from a players perspective, it kinda sucks to have the Storyteller want you to be one of the rabble when you want to play someone actually competent.
                  Have you ever heard of cyberpunk?

                  I feel like you have the weird idea that if you ever played in the world of Mike Pondsmith or Shadow Run, that you'd want to play a Corpo.

                  I mean, the whole POINT is playing the badass individualist rebels.

                  I apply this same attitude to Gothic Punk.

                  Also you guys know anarch states aren't actually... successful or ideologically driven, right? Most anarchs don't wanna change the system they just wanna change the people. Most anarch states become despots or ganglands.
                  I rarely state this but I think that the treatment of Los Angeles' gang violence and glorification of it in Los Angeles by Night was both racist and one of the worst things ever done for the Anarchs.

                  I will agree, though, that most Anarchs don't have any ideology of, "I don't want to be stepped on."

                  The thing is--that's not actually a bad argument.

                  If what the Anarchs offer is to be in charge or not the ant but the boot, that is a good reason to join.
                  Last edited by CTPhipps; 12-21-2020, 03:15 PM.


                  Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                  • True Punk is playing the Man.

                    But also I think you're (we're?) losing yourself in the argument.

                    I think Lasombra should join the Anarchs in V5 because that's logical. And shouldn't join the Cam because joining the V5 cam is like booking tickets on a ship that you can see is visibly sinking and burning at the same time without an insurance policy. From a player's perspective it might seem cool to put yourself in such a stupid position, but from a character's perspective that kind of idiocy is just idiocy.


                    Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
                    There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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                    • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                      1)Have you ever heard of cyberpunk?

                      I feel like you have the weird idea that if you ever played in the world of Mike Pondsmith or Shadow Run, that you'd want to play a Corpo.

                      I mean, the whole POINT is playing the badass individualist rebels.

                      I apply this same attitude to Gothic Punk.



                      2)I rarely state this but I think that the treatment of Los Angeles' gang violence and glorification of it in Los Angeles by Night was both racist and one of the worst things ever done for the Anarchs.

                      I will agree, though, that most Anarchs don't have any ideology of, "I don't want to be stepped on."

                      The thing is--that's not actually a bad argument.

                      If what the Anarchs offer is to be in charge or not the ant but the boot, that is a good reason to join.
                      1) The point of Cyberpunk is raging against the night in a doomed rebellion. The point of the Anarchs is doing the same, (And yes, some sabbat buy into this as well, they are called shovel heads) which is...actually not that interesting or fun Religious war, the games of ages, the transcendence of the lie of humanity, that's interesting . If I wanted a doomed rebellion kind of game CP Red does it better, as does Eclipse Phase (and that one actually does some kinds of Horror better as well, it's an awesome setting I highly recommend) and earlier editions of ShadowRun.

                      2) Agreed. I wanted them stamped out of existence for that, they are truly irredeemable places.

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                      • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                        True Punk is playing the Man.

                        But also I think you're (we're?) losing yourself in the argument.

                        I think Lasombra should join the Anarchs in V5 because that's logical. And shouldn't join the Cam because joining the V5 cam is like booking tickets on a ship that you can see is visibly sinking and burning at the same time without an insurance policy. From a player's perspective it might seem cool to put yourself in such a stupid position, but from a character's perspective that kind of idiocy is just idiocy.

                        Just chiming in, but I think all of V5 can be summed up as decisions that make sense and are "fun", for a given defnition of both words, from an outside perspective, but make no sense if you care about verisimilitude at all.

                        Which, by the way, was one of the main point raised in the video linked on page 5 or whatever.

                        YMMV, but the jump from notV5 to V5 broke my suspension of disbelief, and I would be a lot happier if they outright came out and said it is a reboot, and called it Vampire: A requiem for the Masquerade.

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                        • I think most of these complaints can be summed up as: "I cannot imagine Vampire: The Masquerade being anything other than the game I imagined in my head, and anything that varies from this is therefore intolerableā€.

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                          • Originally posted by Taggie View Post

                            1) The point of Cyberpunk is raging against the night in a doomed rebellion. The point of the Anarchs is doing the same, (And yes, some sabbat buy into this as well, they are called shovel heads) which is...actually not that interesting or fun Religious war, the games of ages, the transcendence of the lie of humanity, that's interesting . If I wanted a doomed rebellion kind of game CP Red does it better, as does Eclipse Phase (and that one actually does some kinds of Horror better as well, it's an awesome setting I highly recommend) and earlier editions of ShadowRun.

                            2) Agreed. I wanted them stamped out of existence for that, they are truly irredeemable places.
                            Like I said, there's no wrong way to do Vampire: The Masquerade and the point of the game is to have fun.

                            However, you're just dead wrong about it not being interesting or fun. The best part of V:TM for me is the struggle for freedom against the pathetic sell-outs and shells that are the Elders. Yes, you cannot win against the Antediluvians or the Jyhad but you can fight for every bit of freedom that you can possess as well as thwart the ambitions as well as plans of beings centuries older than you are. Eventually, you will meet the Final Death or become corrupted. There's no way out except Golconda and I suspect that requires you leaving Kindred society altogether if it exists at all.

                            But you can throw a Molotov at the system.

                            Also, "transcendence of Humanity" is an interesting argument because it may be just as mythical as Golconda. To quote COLONEL SUN, which is the last "official" Bond novel despite not being by Ian Fleming, Colonel Sun is a villain who talks a big game about transcending moral values, the power of embracing inhuman morality, and being a superior being. Bond beats the crap out of him and as he's about to die, Sun admits that it was all bullshit and that he just felt disgust and shame at all the things he did.

                            It's up to the ST whether the Sabbat's claims of Nirvana are truly the way forward or just self-delusions of serial killers.

                            But you get to decide that for your table, not me.

                            Same for the merits of the Anarchs.

                            #RESIST


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                            • Originally posted by BadFurryFanFic View Post

                              I just meant calling it a new game can get you pinged for edition warring.
                              I think it was clear I meant it in a positive way, as a fan of Vampire: The Masquerade since 1991.

                              My point is that V5 is built upon different mechanical assumptions and you can't just take stuff from even V20 and port it directly across and have it work in exactly the same way. And that's fine.

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                              • Originally posted by Trippy View Post
                                I think most of these complaints can be summed up as: "I cannot imagine Vampire: The Masquerade being anything other than the game I imagined in my head, and anything that varies from this is therefore intolerableā€.
                                I am often struck by how proscriptive people take things in the game. That is, if "(fill in the blank with a noun) was described as (fill in the blank with descriptive phrase)" - then that is how some fans will always see things. Deviation from that means someone, somewhere, is doing fun wrong.

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