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  • Originally posted by Chris24601 View Post
    “It’s exactly the same except for X” is basically the textbook definition for a parallel universe story.

    Likewise, as I’ve stated before I don’t consider BJD to be a part of the natural V20 canon. It was the last V20 book published barely six-months (Jan 2018) ahead of V5 (Aug 2018) when the changes Paradox had made for V5 were already well known. It was a patch product akin to many of the last products released by D&D ahead of an edition change that are more about pitching a “new normal” than actually following the previous edition’s lore with any great accuracy (and to get any last mechanical bits for V20 out there).

    Basically it’s hard for me to say “V5 is a logical continuation of V20” when the only thing ot logically continues is a lore dump book that threw all sorts of new plots out there six months before an edition change versus all the lore that V20 presented throughout the rest of V20’s seven year run.

    If I were to break down “universes” I’d do it as follows;

    - V1/2/Rev (ended with Gehenna c. Jan 2004)
    - V20 (entire V20 line less BJD lore, no Withering/Gehenna, possibly even no Week of Nightmares)
    - V5 (a universe with slightly different mechanics, but most of the VRev and BJD events occurred)
    - VtR (another close, but different universe whose metaphysics place it somewhere past, but linked to V5).
    If you want to say the old WoD ceased to exist with the end of times events and the current timeline is taking palce into a parallel universe it makes sense, but ultimately it changes little: we are dealing with what we have at our disposal and obviously something that went through the apocalypse is not.
    Also, V20 wasn't originally meant to "continue" anything it was just a compilation and a commemorative edition, its success caused it to restart the metaplot.

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    • Originally posted by Haquim View Post

      Also, V20 wasn't originally meant to "continue" anything it was just a compilation and a commemorative edition, its success caused it to restart the metaplot.
      don't let Rich hear you say that ._.


      -

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      • Nate from the old VtM25 podcast has a review out on the compendium
        https://youtu.be/PJkDge_vzfI
        Last edited by Dwight; 01-11-2021, 03:23 PM.

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        • Do we know if Onyx Path will be releasing errata/updates for their. characters now that the Companion has been released? Shejana is pretty Ravnos already and her write-up fits with the general mood of the clan as defined in the Companion, but *technically* Erzulie doesn't have the Viccisitude portions portions of Protean as they require Discipline 2. Not trying to be a stick in the mud or anything like that, just curious how this kind of situation will resolve itself.

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          • Originally posted by DifferentJustin View Post
            Do we know if Onyx Path will be releasing errata/updates for their. characters now that the Companion has been released? Shejana is pretty Ravnos already and her write-up fits with the general mood of the clan as defined in the Companion, but *technically* Erzulie doesn't have the Viccisitude portions portions of Protean as they require Discipline 2. Not trying to be a stick in the mud or anything like that, just curious how this kind of situation will resolve itself.
            Here's your answer

            But if you don't want to check the video the answer is: it's likely they'll update the pdf with the errata and it's also possible that the Salubri material will be expanded.

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            • I took forever doing this review:

              4/5

              The VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE COMPANION is a relatively short sixty-five page book that was released for free by the folks at White Wolf and Paradox Interactive. I have the suspicion it was what was written up for the Vampire: The Masquerade Players Guide that was going to be released by Modiphius Entertainment but was delayed until the point of cancellation. If so, I think it was very nice of them to release it. Certainly, it helps keep the updates flowing into the setting and helps motivate the fanbase into continuing to play the game.

              The biggest update to the setting is the book finally provides rules for the Tzimisce, Ravnos, and Salubri clans. One of the biggest complaints about the initial release of Fifth Edition was the fact that it only provided rules for the original seven Camarilla clans as well as Thin Bloods. Later supplements added write-ups for the Ministry, Banu Haqim [Assamites], Lasombra, and Hecate [Giovanni]. I always felt this was one of the Fifth Edition's biggest issues as Vampire: The Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition provided rules for all thirteen clans in the main book.

              As a long time fan of the Tzimisce, I was really appreciative of their write-up. I felt the absence of the Sabbat was another flaw of Fifth Edition and it was impossible to adapt them for my games because I didn't have the rules for its two Clans. I like the remake of the Fiends, focusing more on them as vampire-shaped dragons consumed with greed as well as wrath versus sadistic Buffalo Bill-esque psycho killers. Their new version is heavily influenced by the Dark Ages interpretation of the Clan and I like that a lot. I've always felt the more overtly "gross" Tzimisce were inferior to the voivodes of old.

              The Ravnos update is something I'm a little iffier on because I already felt the Clan had already been "fixed" by playing up their Indian subcontinent roots. I've always felt V:TM should be more international and incorporating the Rakahasa myth felt like it expanded the story significantly. The new versions of the Ravnos are a more regionally neutral "Trickster" Clan that exist for the purposes of robbing from the rich and laying low the haughty.

              The Ravnos are also possessed of a much better Clan Flaw this time around: being unable to stay in one place rather than having to commit crimes (that plays into unfortunate stereotypes). Even so, I feel like this infringes on my favorite elements of the Malkavians as the Trickster Clan as I was one of the few people who took their position as the pranksters of Kindred society seriously. Still, I think this version of the Ravnos is likely to stick and fits the more universal Clan approach that V5 seems to be going with.

              One thing I liked about the treatment of the Ravnos is that it establishes the Week of Nightmares did occur and the Clan is a shadow of its former self. The consequences for the previous metaplot aren't glossed over and weigh heavily on the Clan. It makes you wonder if trying to destroy one's Antediluvian is even worth it given the horrifying results. Then again, the Hecate seemed to have gotten away with it so maybe the lesson learned is, "Don't nuke your Antediluvian. He'll take it personally."

              The Salubri are kind of an odd pick for the third Clan as while they're historically important, I'm not really sure anyone was overly clamoring for their return. At least over any other Bloodlines. On the other hand, I actually feel like the Salubri may have been the Clan most improved by its update. Previous versions of the Salubri have leaned hard either into them as vampire saints or deranged fundamentalists. Their Jesusian power of healing was also something of a gamebreaker Humanity-wise.

              The new Salubri having the relatively normal discipline spread of Auspex, Dominate, and Fortitude means that they're significantly more usable in a "normal" campaign. While they still have the Clan Flaw of Hunted as well as their Third Eye, I could easily see these Salubri staying hidden for centuries without their Discipline outing them. Their previous Clan Flaw of being unable to feed from the unwilling also made it hard to tell horror stories, which defeats the purpose of the game. The write-up seems to imply the Salubri numbers are tiny, though, and I was hoping we'd get around that. The Tremere undoubtedly exterminated them in Europe but there's plenty of other continents for them to have fled to.

              The book also provides a nice little section on coteries that explains why vampires choose to band together when they're normally solitary creatures of the night. I really enjoyed this part but don't have much to add other than its good flavor text. The book also provides updated rules on ghouls and talks about the challenges of roleplaying consent when dealing with the fact that they're inherently a master/slave relationship. I appreciated this discussion and the maturity with which it's handled. People come to vampire to play horrifying things but it's important to understand what your players are comfortable with.

              The additional rules and Disciplines that the book provides are okay. A lot of fans are going to be annoyed at the apparent nerfing that Vicissitude, Chimestry, and Obeah have all received. Vicissitude is now a subset of Protean, Chimestry of Dominate, and Obeah of Auspex. The fact Salubri cannot heal physical injuries anymore is something that is probably a wise decision for game balance but still is a huge change. Presumably any actual healers were Blood Sorcerers or possessed of Vicissitude Protean variants.

              Overall, I was very fond of this book and it provides a lot of useful material for Fifth Edition. I'm going to be honest that I probably think this should have been part of a Player's Handbook. On the other hand, it's hard to argue with free as a price tag. The information on the remaining Clans, mortals, and ghouls opens up a lot of options. I also approve of the majority of updates. Some people will be off-put by the changes but I think it makes all three Clans much more playable in mixed coteries. I also think the rules for ghouls, coterie rules, and roleplaying suggestions are very helpful.



              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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              • Ok, maybe I'm a little late here. But why did the Ravnos lost Fortitude for Presence? It makes no sense at all. I can understand the whole Obfuscate thing, but that is such a strange unnecessary change. I don't like much the Tzimisce change from Auspex to Dominate, but I guess it was much more discussed here already...

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                • Originally posted by Ulbrecht View Post
                  Ok, maybe I'm a little late here. But why did the Ravnos lost Fortitude for Presence? It makes no sense at all. I can understand the whole Obfuscate thing, but that is such a strange unnecessary change. I don't like much the Tzimisce change from Auspex to Dominate, but I guess it was much more discussed here already...
                  because amalgams my dude

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                  • I've always thought of Ravnos as skating by on their charm (and a good exit strategy) rather than being stalwart tough guy types, so the discipline switch makes sense to me with regard to the essence of the clan.

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                    • Originally posted by Ulbrecht View Post
                      Ok, maybe I'm a little late here. But why did the Ravnos lost Fortitude for Presence? It makes no sense at all. I can understand the whole Obfuscate thing, but that is such a strange unnecessary change. I don't like much the Tzimisce change from Auspex to Dominate, but I guess it was much more discussed here already...
                      Presence and Obfuscate seems a good basis for Combo Chimestry-like effects.


                      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                      • I still think Obfuscate and Fortitude would have been a better combo for Chimerstry. Obfuscate has all the mental manipulation/illusion stuff baked into it already, just a little fluff about how Fortitude makes it lasting outside of the vampire's sphere of influence is all it would take. Making it Presence instead gives them a weird overlap in that now the Ministry can also pick up Chimerstry in-clan, as opposed to the Samedi Hecata who would have if it were Fortitude. And while the Ministry can probably use Chimerstry to great effect, it feels weird to give them that and the Serpentis amalgam running off of Presence too.

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                        • Originally posted by IllithidActivity View Post
                          I still think Obfuscate and Fortitude would have been a better combo for Chimerstry. Obfuscate has all the mental manipulation/illusion stuff baked into it already, just a little fluff about how Fortitude makes it lasting outside of the vampire's sphere of influence is all it would take. Making it Presence instead gives them a weird overlap in that now the Ministry can also pick up Chimerstry in-clan, as opposed to the Samedi Hecata who would have if it were Fortitude. And while the Ministry can probably use Chimerstry to great effect, it feels weird to give them that and the Serpentis amalgam running off of Presence too.
                          Depends on how common you think Discipline spreads are.

                          I don't think Out of Clan Disciplines are meant to be uncommon at all in this setting and virtually every vampire can have weird mixes of powers now.


                          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                          • I think the amalgam explanation is kind of weak. Making Chimestry with Fortitude makes as much sense as with Presence. If it was a change centered on some obscure lore that I don't know, but could be explained somehow, I would feel more at ease, I guess...

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                            • Originally posted by Ulbrecht View Post
                              I think the amalgam explanation is kind of weak. Making Chimestry with Fortitude makes as much sense as with Presence. If it was a change centered on some obscure lore that I don't know, but could be explained somehow, I would feel more at ease, I guess...
                              a presence amalgam makes alot more sense then fortitude. i still don't like it but still

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                              • Personally, I think that Presence and Obfuscate make perfect sense for the Ravnos. I seem to recall suggesting those Disciplines for them years ago.

                                Edit: here it is

                                Originally posted by Sergeant Brother View Post
                                Ravnos - Celerity, Obfuscate, Presence. Being quick to use slight of hand, pick locks or pockets, get away fast. Obfuscate to sneak into or out of places or disguise yourself as somebody else. Presence to charm people into believing your cons.
                                Last edited by Sergeant Brother; 03-13-2021, 05:08 AM.

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