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  • Chicago by Night Lore Deep Dive

    In my current Chronicle, the Coterie has entered Chicago and found themselves in the thick of some serious shenanigans. As this is a setting I've used a lot, I thought it might be fun to update it, and having the characters encounter some NPC's that haven't been heard of in awhile, sort of a "where are they now?" chapter. I've used CbN5e for some of this (and found some surprises, like Tamoszius being alive), but I had a few questions and was curious if anyone knows the answers, or is willing to share their speculation and/or headcanon.

    First up, Lodin's Brood: whatever happened to Lorraine? Does anyone know anything about a Ventrue named Riggs? Bonus question: Did any of Lodin's ghouls from Ashes to Ashes survive?

    It's highly probable that Neally's Childe Becky didn't make it, but then again, the Sabbat Kinfolk girl from Under a Blood Red Moon survived, so..

    Speaking of UaBRM, whatever happened to Pariah?

    And while we're talking about Ventrue, is the Inconnu still a thing, or is it assumed Rebekah headed East in 5e?

    Forged in Steel: whatever happened to the other guests as Modius's party? I know that Juggler and Modius continued to vie for control of Gary, which ended badly for all concerned.

    And a big question concerning Chicago: did someone destroy Gulfora, or did she just quietly get retconned after Demon the Fallen?

    I'm also curious about Dr. Genet's fate. And for that matter, Philipe Rigaud, Wendy Wade, and Cameron's Sabbat Pack? Margarite was someone my players deliberately asked about.

    And finally, whatever happened to Maxwell?


  • #2
    Maxwell at least is a main villain in let the streets run red. He's trying to work his way back into Chicago.

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    • #3
      Most of them we don't know what happened to them. There have been a few references here and there. For example, Annabelle's Whispers on her write-up included a passing mention of the Brujah Andrei and the Nosferatu Tammy being put on a list of 'Tradition violators' she gave to Jackson. Because Annabelle is still Annabelle. Likewise, the write-up of a Caitiff character in the Folios mentioned that the Giovanni left the city, likely during the chaos that led up to the Family Reunion.

      Outside of the few members we've seen in the three Chicago books, we don't know what's happened to the rest of Lodin's Brood post-Blood Red Moon. Honestly given Lorraine's write-ups in the older Editions, I don't put much stock in her ever popping up again. Let's face it, Lodin Embraced her for emotional reasons rather than the control-driven purposes of the rest. She could never be a powerplayer like Jackson, Capone or Ballard. Frankly I'd see her as someone likely to fall under the sway of a vampire cult without any Blood Bonding or supernatural coercion.

      Becky to my knowledge has never been brought up since Blood Bond so I would assume officially dead/up to the ST's decision. And honestly I don't expect them to bring back a vampire that was Embraced at aged eight.

      Pariah... well we've gotten a little on the Lupines, much less the Abominations. So who knows.

      I don't think the Inconnu have been brought up in V5.

      Let the Streets Run brought back several of the Gray Kindred, namely Modius, Juggler, Evelyn and Allicia. The rest are as I recall MIA.

      And I think everyone's just trying to forget about Gulfora...

      Of course, that's the official stuff. STs and groups can alter that to suit their tastes/actions.


      Homo sapiens. What an inventive, invincible species. It's only a few million years since they crawled up out of the mud and learned to walk. Puny, defenceless bipeds. They've survived flood, famine and plague. They've survived cosmic wars and holocausts. And now, here they are, out among the stars, waiting to begin a new life. Ready to outsit eternity. They're indomitable. Indomitable.

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      • #4
        In my chronicle, after having solved Edward's problem, Lodin accepted (with difficulty) that the Tremere of my coterie take Becky, an orphan forever, under its guardianship. Putting him at odds with Nicolaï. Anyway, he could not abandon this child to his fate. Later on, after a few years and the bonds forged with the whole coterie, Becky naturally became closer to her "aunt" Ventrue (actually a Setite) who guided her on the "right path". His adopted Sire went away for a few too long years on the old continent and on his return he found a more mature Becky who had totally accepted his vampire condition. In fact she became a disciple of the great Set, who gave her a family, her aunt and her many friends (servants), whereas she was never accepted by the Lodin’s brood or the rest of the Cainite society. Even her Sire abandoned her for more urgent matters. Today, Becky and her now "adopted mother" are working together to get children out of orphanages. They use their respective contacts and talents to place the children with very influential families in the city, be it economic, political or judicial. They now have "innocent little ears" who are happy to tell their friends Becky, with whom they have never cut off contact, about what they have heard, hidden behind the door of their dad's office.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Lynceus View Post
          In my current Chronicle, the Coterie has entered Chicago and found themselves in the thick of some serious shenanigans. As this is a setting I've used a lot, I thought it might be fun to update it, and having the characters encounter some NPC's that haven't been heard of in awhile, sort of a "where are they now?" chapter. I've used CbN5e for some of this (and found some surprises, like Tamoszius being alive), but I had a few questions and was curious if anyone knows the answers, or is willing to share their speculation and/or headcanon.
          Happy to be of service.

          First up, Lodin's Brood: whatever happened to Lorraine? Does anyone know anything about a Ventrue named Riggs? Bonus question: Did any of Lodin's ghouls from Ashes to Ashes survive?
          No one knows what happened to Lorraine and I would really like to see her again, especially to see how she's changed in the twenty years since his "death." Evelyn and Allicia have both changed dramatically in the time since V:TM First Edition after all.

          My recommendation is that she was exiled with Joseph Peterson by Kevin Jackson and has since formed a New Age hippie drug cult.

          It's highly probable that Neally's Childe Becky didn't make it, but then again, the Sabbat Kinfolk girl from Under a Blood Red Moon survived, so..
          Very true.

          Speaking of UaBRM, whatever happened to Pariah?
          The Garou rejected him after Under a Blood Red Moon and he started degenerating and becoming a vengeful hate-filled Wyrm creature. I suspect either the Garou put him down or he'll become a Wight and probably need an entire National Guard unit to put him down.

          And while we're talking about Ventrue, is the Inconnu still a thing, or is it assumed Rebekah headed East in 5e?
          Rebekah appears in BECKETT'S JYHAD DIARY as having fallen from Golconda but states that it isn't as bad a thing as it sounds. The Inconnu are still a thing but they have their entire history exposed in LAIR OF THE HIDDEN. The Master of Ravens is now propagating a fake book about achieving Golconda that is designed to drive people to wightdom and fostering war between the Salubri and Tremere.

          Forged in Steel: whatever happened to the other guests as Modius's party? I know that Juggler and Modius continued to vie for control of Gary, which ended badly for all concerned.
          * Modius was overthrown by Allicia with the help of the Anarchs (specifically game shop owner Gary Caldwell who is in love with her). He's now staked in Maxwell's care.
          * Allicia has joined the Anarchs and regained her singing but not speaking voice. She uses text messages now.
          * Michael sired a Malkavian named Arthur Caldwell to be his caretaker but the latter left.
          * Lucian was Beckoned.
          * Danov left town.
          * Juggler was staked and is now in Maxwell's care. He got about 2 seconds to celebrate his complete victory over Modius.
          * Evelyn has since taken over as Baron of Gary with Anita Wainwright's help.

          And a big question concerning Chicago: did someone destroy Gulfora, or did she just quietly get retconned after Demon the Fallen?
          No idea but I believe she's a Defiler Earthbound.

          I'm also curious about Dr. Genet's fate. And for that matter, Philipe Rigaud, Wendy Wade, and Cameron's Sabbat Pack? Margarite was someone my players deliberately asked about.
          Doctor Genet left Chicago to return to Italy while the city's Sabbat were destroyed by Kevin Jackson as part of the price for Edward Neally to come back to Chicago. Cameron is confirmed to have met the Final Death along with his pack.

          And finally, whatever happened to Maxwell?
          He was chosen to be Prince of Chicago before Helena just put the kibosh on that and sent him packing. He realized something was afoot and now lives in Gary, prepping for a second go at the Princedom.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Lynceus View Post
            Bonus question: Did any of Lodin's ghouls from Ashes to Ashes survive?
            I'd be inclined to say yes. In all of the pre-V5 city books, ghouls are criminally underrepresented (ditto mortals). You might as well make use of the ones who have detailed backgrounds and personalities.

            At least one was probably killed by werewolves during Under a Blood Red Moon. Dying for their master is what they are supposed to do. The survivors were likely taken in by Joseph Peterson, who in turn lost them to Kevin Jackson. It's possible others could have gotten lost during the confusion and wound up in another domitor's hands.

            There's a plot hook in that since Lodin never actually died, his ghouls' blood bonds towards him never snapped. Thralls (Kindred or ghoul) are supposed to go crazy when their regnants die. Lodin's ghouls were probably heartbroken and wracked with guilt over not saving their domitor, but someone who got to know them might be able to recognize their feelings as just garden variety sadness and guilt--and evidence the former prince might still be out there somewhere. It's possible Lodin's ghouls were just strong-willed, but every single one of them...? Sometimes it pays to get to know "the help."

            There's another plot hook in that some or all of Lodin's surviving ghouls might still be blood bound to him. After 20+ years of drinking Joseph Peterson's and Kevin Jackson's vitae, it's possible they've developed new bonds towards their new domitors, but Lodin is significantly higher Blood Potency than Jackson and Peterson doesn't strike me as being that high BP either. If Lodin were ever to make a bid for praxis, it's possible Jackson might get stabbed in the back from where he's least expecting it. The ex-prince turned once-again-prince might even be inclined to reward such helpful ghouls with the Embrace. Lodin was always an extremely prolific sire and he'd probably want to start his new reign with a new gaggle of kids.


            Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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            • #7
              Thanks for the replies so far, it's all very useful. Chicago had a lot of cool characters over the years, and while some probably never amounted to much, they were always a treat (like Scottie Cartwright). I think 2e went too far in pruning the Kindred population- sure, UaBRM had to have casualties, and Chicago DOES have way too many vampires to be realistic, but c'mon. Hank Cave did nothing wrong (and who could forget magic night at the Cave featuring Harry Houdini?). About Lodin- now this is established as a thing in canon that vampires can suffer permanent wounds from Lupine attacks, but mechanically all that the rules ever stated in the past was a throwaway line about "aggravated wounds when healed always leave telltale scarring" that always freaked out my Toreador players (lol). Why is it, exactly, that Olaf is in such bad shape, or is it more likely he's faking?

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              • #8
                Vaguely on topic, but do we know what all transpired during Lodin's "Cauchemar Praxis" that lasted from 1913-1966 or what would have happened, compiling what we know from the older material?

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                • #9
                  I never noticed that before, but thanks for bringing it up. 50 years of peace in Chicago? Well, a quick look at real world history shows a different tale. If we skip over the Eastland Disaster or the Black Sox Scandal, in 1919 the city erupted in a week of violence known as the Race Riots. 1929 brings us the St. Valentine's Day Massacre (and we know Lodin followed Capones career closely), 1933 had a mayor being assassinated, Queen Elizabeth visits in 1959 (time for the yearly Chess Game!). Then MLK marches in 66, which ends Lodin's "era of peace". So it's odd that it was canonically declared that "nothing happened". I'm reminded of that Family Guy bit: "Yeah, about your pamphlet... uh, I'm not seeing anything about German history between 1939 and 1945. There's just a big gap." "Everyone vas on vacation. On your left is Munich's first city hall, erected in 15..."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lynceus View Post
                    I never noticed that before, but thanks for bringing it up. 50 years of peace in Chicago? Well, a quick look at real world history shows a different tale. If we skip over the Eastland Disaster or the Black Sox Scandal, in 1919 the city erupted in a week of violence known as the Race Riots. 1929 brings us the St. Valentine's Day Massacre (and we know Lodin followed Capones career closely), 1933 had a mayor being assassinated, Queen Elizabeth visits in 1959 (time for the yearly Chess Game!). Then MLK marches in 66, which ends Lodin's "era of peace". So it's odd that it was canonically declared that "nothing happened". I'm reminded of that Family Guy bit: "Yeah, about your pamphlet... uh, I'm not seeing anything about German history between 1939 and 1945. There's just a big gap." "Everyone vas on vacation. On your left is Munich's first city hall, erected in 15..."
                    Well the vampires were doing fine.

                    But yes, there's always some mistakes. Mind you, sometimes V:TM history is just weird. Apparently, Milwaukee is the site of a constant Vietnam-esque low level war that has been going on for decades with possibly HUNDREDS of bodies or ash.

                    You'd think people would notice.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                    • #11
                      Other noteworthy events: 1925, Gray Raven has a vision of UaBRM. 1929, of course, is the beginning of the Great Depression (which should have an impact on Lodin's Brood). 1942 the first artificial nuclear chain reaction is performed at the University of Chicago. What I find very telling about this period is that "Cauchemar" is French for "nightmare". A nightmare for whom, exactly? Surely not Lodin, since he's enjoying a (relatively) undisturbed reign. His enemies? Surely the seeds for the downfall of Gary were planted at this time. Helena and Menele were both still slumbering. So obviously something was going on...but what?

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                      • #12
                        Honestly, I'd love to hear everyone's take on the update for Gary, Indiana and the Old NPCs as well as the New Ones.


                        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                          Well the vampires were doing fine.

                          But yes, there's always some mistakes. Mind you, sometimes V:TM history is just weird. Apparently, Milwaukee is the site of a constant Vietnam-esque low level war that has been going on for decades with possibly HUNDREDS of bodies or ash.

                          You'd think people would notice.
                          As someone who lives in Milwaukee, that level of conflict is unfortunately incredibly believable if the bodies are disposed of in the right neighborhoods. This city is kind of a shit-hole at times...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lynceus View Post
                            and Chicago DOES have way too many vampires to be realistic
                            There was an academic study done a while back (I've linked to it in earlier threads) that showed Anne Rice's vampires would've depopulated the entire world after X many years. I don't remember how many, but it wasn't a ton. WoD vampires are more numerous than Anne Rice's and kill at least as many people.

                            So, my attitude towards vampire population demographics is largely "whatever." Fill your city with as few or as many vampires as you like; anything beyond a bare handful is equally unrealistic. It's the equivalent to sci-fi faster than light travel and just an area of the setting where we suspend disbelief.

                            Chicago had a lot of cool characters over the years, and while some probably never amounted to much, they were always a treat (like Scottie Cartwright). I think 2e went too far in pruning the Kindred population
                            I do too. Under a Blood Red Moon was an easy way for the writers to get rid of characters they saw as uninteresting or problematic. (See: All of the over the top zany Malkavians getting killed and replaced with more subtle ones.) I think you needed casualties to demonstrate the war with the werewolves had consequences, but a lot of the killed-off characters were ones I found pretty interesting, or who contained decent ideas that just needed better execution. Rosa Hernandez is a a fairly cartoonish character in 1e/2e Chicago but gets a ton more depth in V5 Chicago.

                            A few were also just plain fun. Like Hank Cave. He'd be a total hipster if he'd lived into the 2010s. I can see him with the beard, fedora, flannel shirt, extra-thick glasses...


                            Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by False Epiphany View Post
                              There was an academic study done a while back (I've linked to it in earlier threads) that showed Anne Rice's vampires would've depopulated the entire world after X many years. I don't remember how many, but it wasn't a ton. WoD vampires are more numerous than Anne Rice's and kill at least as many people.

                              So, my attitude towards vampire population demographics is largely "whatever." Fill your city with as few or as many vampires as you like; anything beyond a bare handful is equally unrealistic. It's the equivalent to sci-fi faster than light travel and just an area of the setting where we suspend disbelief.
                              I think realism depends on how you interpret vampire lifestyles. One of the observations I made about 1st Edition was the fact that most vampires in Chicago actually had fairly high humanities and even the Humanity 0 people weren't actually serial killers (except for Son) let alone rampaging monsters who killed a person every night. The implication was that vampires were more like mafia dons in that they would kill people but it would be something that happened fairly rarely. Gradually, vampires started to become more and more violent to the point that its assumed even High Humanity vampires have a bunch of corpses in their basement.

                              You're right that there's no making vampires "realistic" let alone all the other supernaturals of the World of Darkness but I think its worth noting that the original Kindred were like, "Oh no, I drained my victim to death! NOOOOOO!" vs. "You accidentally kill your vessel. Take one stain."

                              I do too. Under a Blood Red Moon was an easy way for the writers to get rid of characters they saw as uninteresting or problematic. (See: All of the over the top zany Malkavians getting killed and replaced with more subtle ones.) I think you needed casualties to demonstrate the war with the werewolves had consequences, but a lot of the killed-off characters were ones I found pretty interesting, or who contained decent ideas that just needed better execution. Rosa Hernandez is a a fairly cartoonish character in 1e/2e Chicago but gets a ton more depth in V5 Chicago.

                              A few were also just plain fun. Like Hank Cave. He'd be a total hipster if he'd lived into the 2010s. I can see him with the beard, fedora, flannel shirt, extra-thick glasses...
                              Hank Cave is notably almost ALWAYS the guy who gets brought up as the vampire that people were most upset about being killed off with the exception of Lodin himself.

                              The thing about Chicago by Night 2nd Edition is that I think it's a solid book but I also think it really is inferior to its predecessor. Chicago by Night 1st Edition had its flaws, many-many flaws, but I also feel like UABRM also removed a lot of the character of the city. The new vampires who replaced the old ones were frequently a lot more generic, often a lot more stereotypical, and not really as diverse.

                              For example, Theodore Dooley was a Black Panther activist and Anarch leader who had a lot of complicated relationships with the Kindred around him. Anita Wainwright was his own true love (I often think he was killed because lots of players wanted to use her as a love interest), he was the sire of Gordon Keaton, and he had been burned by Maldavis' revolution. He was also a guy who fought with the pen and word rather than shotguns.

                              Carlyle? Well, Carlyle was basically, "Black guy with shotgun." Sort of like how Theo Bell is usually done but without the context of American slavery and supporting the Camarilla to round out his character.
                              Last edited by CTPhipps; 12-20-2020, 03:19 PM.


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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