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Chicago by Night Lore Deep Dive

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  • Lynceus
    started a topic Chicago by Night Lore Deep Dive

    Chicago by Night Lore Deep Dive

    In my current Chronicle, the Coterie has entered Chicago and found themselves in the thick of some serious shenanigans. As this is a setting I've used a lot, I thought it might be fun to update it, and having the characters encounter some NPC's that haven't been heard of in awhile, sort of a "where are they now?" chapter. I've used CbN5e for some of this (and found some surprises, like Tamoszius being alive), but I had a few questions and was curious if anyone knows the answers, or is willing to share their speculation and/or headcanon.

    First up, Lodin's Brood: whatever happened to Lorraine? Does anyone know anything about a Ventrue named Riggs? Bonus question: Did any of Lodin's ghouls from Ashes to Ashes survive?

    It's highly probable that Neally's Childe Becky didn't make it, but then again, the Sabbat Kinfolk girl from Under a Blood Red Moon survived, so..

    Speaking of UaBRM, whatever happened to Pariah?

    And while we're talking about Ventrue, is the Inconnu still a thing, or is it assumed Rebekah headed East in 5e?

    Forged in Steel: whatever happened to the other guests as Modius's party? I know that Juggler and Modius continued to vie for control of Gary, which ended badly for all concerned.

    And a big question concerning Chicago: did someone destroy Gulfora, or did she just quietly get retconned after Demon the Fallen?

    I'm also curious about Dr. Genet's fate. And for that matter, Philipe Rigaud, Wendy Wade, and Cameron's Sabbat Pack? Margarite was someone my players deliberately asked about.

    And finally, whatever happened to Maxwell?


  • Penelope
    replied
    I actually don’t know that much about the older books, so I find this thread fascinating.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    For me, I just really liked how all the characters went in believable but interesting directions:

    1. Modius eventually degenerates to attempting to use Sullivan Dane and Hunters as a way to purge his enemies. Which loses him whatever remaining support he has as a Camarilla Elder and yet shows that, despite how much of a dork he is, he's genuinely terrifying to the depths he'll sink to.

    2. Juggler has gradually grown into someone more capable and less of a poseur now that he's been out of Chicago for a decade or two. It implies that his patheticness as Anarch leader was due to his Blood Bond to Tyler and Domination at Helena's hand.

    3. Evelyn Stephens is growing into a fully capable Anarch leader and arguably one much better than Juggler who wants to make Gary a better place. However, she's ALSO working with hunters and probably has turned over Camarilla to Gregory Stephen's vampire-hunting SWAT unit.

    4. Allicia is probably the most changed version with her new ties to Pentex, making use of texting [allowing her to be used], and her new romance. I like that she's also become a singer because we could use some Toreador music competition. I'm imagining her as Lzzy Hale.

    5. I like that Michael/Charlie Embraced themselves a caretaker and used their high Dominate to keep them in line. I feel like that's an interesting angle for a child-like vampire.

    6. Lucian being Beckoned was pretty obvious. Kind of a shame.

    Leave a comment:


  • Black Fox
    replied
    I always considered the vampires in Gary / Forged in Steel to be part of the Chicago setting.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    My biggest regret is I don't know anyone else who is as big enough of a fan of FORGED IN STEEL to do a deep dive of the Gary characters and how they have been changed for 5th Edition.

    Leave a comment:


  • Black Fox
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    The thing about Chicago by Night 2nd Edition is that I think it's a solid book but I also think it really is inferior to its predecessor. Chicago by Night 1st Edition had its flaws, many-many flaws, but I also feel like UABRM also removed a lot of the character of the city. The new vampires who replaced the old ones were frequently a lot more generic, often a lot more stereotypical, and not really as diverse.
    I agree. 1st edition CbN had a lot of cool vampires that were heavily embedded in the city's history, so they weren't just good vampires - they were good vampires from Chicago. There were some interesting concepts in 2nd edition, but overall they weren't as good as those they replaced.

    It's important to note that while Under a Blood Red Moon had a list of canonical victims, the ST always got to decided who died in their chronicles. There's no reason why characters had to die - the ST could always select other casualties.

    In particular, the vampires based on Upton Sinclair characters had some of the most interesting motivations, history, and goals (not surprising, Sinclair was a real writer). So while it makes sense White Wolf would want to eliminate them in published material (though the Jungle was public domain by that time I think) a home chronicle doesn't have that need.

    Originally posted by Lynceus View Post
    Another odd thing I always liked about Chicago was how weird everyone's Discipline mixes were.
    The Disciplines and Humanity of the CbN vampires didn't make any sense. My recommendation is that every ST adjust those as needed for any ST's chronicle.

    = = =
    In my own attempt to run a chronicle based in Chicago, I started the group in the mid-1920s. My intention was to run the game for about 3-5 years to set the stage and allow the players to establish their characters fully, and then to skip forward a decade and run a single scenario through for that decade and then skip to the next decade and so on. Those vignettes would help establish the "true" chronicle that would begin in the late seventies and be a globe trotting adventure dealing with a Methusaleh's secret lair in torpor and how she was manipulating her descendents in the Camarilla, Sabbat, and Anarchs. It was my one chronicle where I intended to get into the messy distinction of the Jyhad in all its complexities.

    I had to cancel the game just before we got to the Great Depression because one of the players had to leave the state (it was only a 3 player game). So bad for me. Bit we were having a blast with just the 1920s stuff. I intended to finally do my first leap forward after Black Tuesday 1929 because it made for a convenient end of the Roaring 20s and wanted to show the new status quo in the middle of the Depression.

    But one of the things I had to do was create a ton of new vampire NPCs as many of the canonical characters either hadn't been created or hadn't arrived in the city yet. It was a lot of work, but it was also a lot of fun to play with the lore. (A lot of those destroyed sires in the Clans sections were alive and well at the time - Procet, Lateland, Maria, Tarmonay, etc. Though I had plenty more that were never mentioned.) My intention was to kill off a lot of of them in the 1960s. In fact, my plan for the sixties vignette was to simply start the game session by telling the PCs that tonight was the night Lodin was dealing with the Anarch threat once and for all during the 1968 Democratic Convention. They had played their part. Now they could do anything they want under the carnage of the night. What do they do? I knew they'd have made many enemies and rivals by that time and wanted to see who they'd attempt to kill before the night was over. Then I'd repopulate the city with many of the canonical NPCs as most of my invented NPCs would likely be dead or missing by then.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post
    Yep, I brought him back because I liked him.
    It's good to be Prince.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Gentleman Gamer
    replied
    Originally posted by Lynceus View Post
    Except, bizarrely, Tamoszius is alive again in 5e!

    Yep, I brought him back because I liked him.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lynceus
    replied
    Except, bizarrely, Tamoszius is alive again in 5e!

    Leave a comment:


  • The Gentleman Gamer
    replied
    Several of the characters killed off in Under a Blood Red Moon were killed off because they were characters from Upton Sinclair's The Jungle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle

    Leave a comment:


  • Lynceus
    replied
    Originally posted by False Epiphany View Post
    Chicago's Discipline spread could be pretty overpowered, as was typical for the time. The wet-behind-the-ears Wendy Wade had something like, IIRC, 15 dots.

    Some characters' spreads, conversely, were pretty restrained. Critias "only" had Auspex 6 and no other elder Discipline levels despite being 2,000 years undead. And he mainly used it to seem smarter than he was by predicting people's sentences.

    I mean, isn't that the best use of Auspex ever? With Critias, it just goes to show that age =/= personal power. All he really cared about was learning stuff, and a walking archive doesn't really NEED a lot of powers. It doesn't hurt that he's the only Noddist Scholar I can think of that doesn't have the stigma of his chosen academic specialization- anywhere else in the Camarilla, you get looked down upon for believing in that nonsense. His utter prestige simply for being a walking archive of Kindred Lore, 5th Generation, his Age, and having personally witnessed events that most Ancilla believe to be myths and legends gives him so much respect and influence that the only person crazy enough to think about going against him is that nutcase Tyler.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by False Epiphany View Post
    Chicago's Discipline spread could be pretty overpowered, as was typical for the time. The wet-behind-the-ears Wendy Wade had something like, IIRC, 15 dots.

    Some characters' spreads, conversely, were pretty restrained. Critias "only" had Auspex 6 and no other elder Discipline levels despite being 2,000 years undead. And he mainly used it to seem smarter than he was by predicting people's sentences.
    I made a commentary that when Critias had Chicago ruled by Primogen, that just meant he was Prince.

    Because he was a 1000 years older than the next eldest member of the group and it wasn't like they were weak either.

    Leave a comment:


  • False Epiphany
    replied
    Chicago's Discipline spread could be pretty overpowered, as was typical for the time. The wet-behind-the-ears Wendy Wade had something like, IIRC, 15 dots.

    Some characters' spreads, conversely, were pretty restrained. Critias "only" had Auspex 6 and no other elder Discipline levels despite being 2,000 years undead. And he mainly used it to seem smarter than he was by predicting people's sentences.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Lynceus View Post
    Another odd thing I always liked about Chicago was how weird everyone's Discipline mixes were. Like Gengis with Auspex 4 (what was he embraced by a Laibon?) or all the Brujah with Dominate (enough that in my games, "Chicago Brujah" with Dominate instead of Presence is an allowed Bloodline). I always got the idea that "Clan Disciplines" was a later idea in VtM development, and characters were just given the powers the writers thought made sense for them. Not that this trend ever changed, lol. Citybooks always had characters with wackily high levels of non-Clan powers. Which made dealing with Storytellers over the years who claimed "Kindred would NEVER teach Discipline X" kind of amusing. Or people griping that Julian Luna has Protean. Hi, have you met Lodin?
    Agreed.

    I always thought "Clan Discipline" was meant to be, "This is slightly EASIER for the vampires to get. Not that you were ever supposed to be barred from them."

    Leave a comment:


  • Lynceus
    replied
    Another odd thing I always liked about Chicago was how weird everyone's Discipline mixes were. Like Gengis with Auspex 4 (what was he embraced by a Laibon?) or all the Brujah with Dominate (enough that in my games, "Chicago Brujah" with Dominate instead of Presence is an allowed Bloodline). I always got the idea that "Clan Disciplines" was a later idea in VtM development, and characters were just given the powers the writers thought made sense for them. Not that this trend ever changed, lol. Citybooks always had characters with wackily high levels of non-Clan powers. Which made dealing with Storytellers over the years who claimed "Kindred would NEVER teach Discipline X" kind of amusing. Or people griping that Julian Luna has Protean. Hi, have you met Lodin?

    Leave a comment:

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