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Lasombra and Tzimisce were never introduced as NPC-only options

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  • #31
    I've played with groups who think Fortitude adding automatic successes to soak rolls is a good idea. Even if you wisely disallow that for soaking fire or sunlight (because Fort 3 Daywalkers is a bit extreme, lol), the real issue is, it can be difficult to score more than 5 damage routinely without Potence. Thus this doesn't just balance Fortitude vs. Potence, it makes Potence a near-necessity for killing a high Fortitude vampire. This is barring shenanigans like a successful ambush + max rounds of aiming (with a telescopic sight) for like a zillion attack dice, I'm talking normal skirmishes. When the best gun does 8 damage base, only the truly best combatants have any real hope of doing much damage in such a system. And I believe that Fortitude is a more common Discipline than Potence (off the top of my head, Brujah, Lasombra, Giovanni, Warrior Setites, Bratovitch Tzimisce, Gargoyles, and Blood Brothers have Potence vs. Ventrue, Salubri, Samedi, Daughters of Cacophony, Gargoyles (again), Cappadocians (if that's a thing), Harbingers of Skulls, Lamia, Ishtarri, Ravnos). Whether or not this is a good or bad thing depends on your Chronicle, I guess, but I imagine most Storytellers would balk at a Fort 5 vampire being able to shrug off damage so easily.

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    • #32
      Lynceus I mean, we might be emphasizing different themes in the games we play, but treating Fortitude the same as Potence mechanically hasn't broken anything in the games I play. Like Potence, it costs a blood point to activate the automatic success feature, so it becomes a resource management issue. A character with Strength 5, Dexterity 3, Brawl 3, and Potence 5 has a chance to cause 15 points of damage (let's say he's targeting the head and that makes it lethal. Also note that I said he has a chance, not a guarantee). An opposing character with Stamina 5 and Fortitude 5 could soak 10 points of that, at best. Add in another 5 for full armor (at the -3 Dexterity penalty), and only then do they cancel each other out. Now factor in all the modifications and it gets weighted in favor of the attacker again - the attacker can blood buff Strength and Dexterity while the defender can only buff Stamina; armor is destroyed if it takes twice it's rating in damage; armor also doesn't protect against fire and sunlight; et cetera. One of the big complaints about Celerity is how it turns the combat into Rocket Tag, and while this doesn't eliminate it, it pads it out a bit. And the "daywalker" thing isn't an issue, because the character still has to avoid Rötscherck, still has has to roll/spend Willpower to stay awake during the day, and still has to roll/spend blood to soak sunlight per turn. So roughly every 3 seconds they have to roll Fortitude or spend blood. They can maybe, if they're super lucky, get a couple of minutes in the sun.

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      • #33
        Most games I play in, wearing full armor like that would attract attention to yourself from Mortals, so while it does exist and can even be acquired, I rarely see it. Also, the Dexterity penalty is despised. But that's not a criticism or a judgement, like I said, different Chronicles have different needs, and as long as everyone is enjoying themselves, then unlife is good.

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        • #34
          Fun thing about Fortitude, in DA:V Revised you could use Fortitude to soak fire and sunlight, but you also added your Stamina to that soak. Every other source of aggravated damage was soaked only with Fortitude.

          Not sure why Fort and Potence aren't inverses of each other, considering how absolutely awful Fortitude is and how mathematically it doesn't help much when dealing with sunlight or fire, along with how terrible the rules are for soaking damage are in general. It's almost always better to dodge than to try to soak damage in WoD unless you're a Matter mage behind 20+ soak.


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