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What was the vampiric world's reaction to the Embrace of Gratiano?

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  • What was the vampiric world's reaction to the Embrace of Gratiano?

    Out of nowhere, an Antediluvian rises from its endless torpor and decides to sire a random mortal. How did Cainites react to this almost unthinkable event? Just imagine the seething jealousy every Lasombra must have felt.
    And you'd think that Gratiano would have had to be kept under every protection imaginable just to survive his first few years as a vampire. Suddenly, there is 4th Generation vitae in the body of a neonate.

  • Haquim
    replied
    Originally posted by HardestadtTheEvenYounger View Post
    Out of nowhere, an Antediluvian rises from its endless torpor and decides to sire a random mortal. How did Cainites react to this almost unthinkable event? Just imagine the seething jealousy every Lasombra must have felt.
    And you'd think that Gratiano would have had to be kept under every protection imaginable just to survive his first few years as a vampire. Suddenly, there is 4th Generation vitae in the body of a neonate.
    Lasombra was known to be active during the Long Night. He was supposed to be staying inside Castel d'Ombrò but clan heads knew about Lasombra being awake. He embracing Gratiano would have been mostly worrisome for members of the Clan of Shadows, divided as it was along religious lines, but no one would have dared question the antediluvian's decisions. Also note Gratiano's embrace was basically the same as Augustus' Giovanni embrace aside from the fact we know Augustus bargained with Cappadocius and refused several other offers from other clans who wanted to bring him into the fold.

    Leave a comment:


  • James_Willoughby
    replied
    Originally posted by HardestadtTheEvenYounger View Post

    Cainite society is small, smaller still in those nights. And they have supernatural means of spreading information. How quickly did foreign powers learn of a Prince's birth? Because I expect the news of the Embrace of a new 4th Generation would spread even more easily.
    How quickly did foreign powers learn of a Prince's birth? If you're in France, you would probably learn of the birth of a new member of the English royal family in weeks or months, but we are talking about two countries with strong links and close geographic proximity. On the other hand, the time it would take to learn of new members born into the ruling dynasties of, say, the Banate of Bosnia or the Duchy of Lithuania is going to be measured in years/decades/never.

    And news in mortal society is supported by a considerable bureaucratic infrastructure, and societal and dynastic requirements which are lacking in Cainite society. If you are a member of the Tremere you may well be appraised of new Cainites embraced into the clan, as the bureaucratic and hierarchical structure of the Tremere supports this. If you're a member of the Lasombra, and reside outside of Italy, there's no particular reason why you would have any idea as to what goes on within the Castle of Shadows.

    Leave a comment:


  • Penelope
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    My opinion is probably, "And so what?"

    The Antediluvians in the Dark Ages weren't considered particularly endless sleeping things. Cappadocias was awake around that time too and he Embraced Augustus Giovanni. There were also plenty of other recently embraced Methuselahs like the ones in Germany, comparatively speaking. It's only after the Dark Ages did Gehenna fervor grip the world and people assumed the Antediluvians were a myth due to the propaganda of the Camarilla. Back then, they were an established fact of life and even if Lasombra isn't asleep, his 6000+ year old progeny are awake that might as well be Antediluvians.

    Also, you'd have to be UTTERLY INSANE to try to attack the newly Embraced progeny of an Antediluvian.

    You probably couldn't get within 100 yards of him without Lasombra ordering you to eat your own heart.

    Obviously, YMMV.
    Totally agree with this.

    Leave a comment:


  • HardestadtTheEvenYounger
    replied
    It is true that the Medieval Age also saw the welcoming of the Giovanni into Clan Cappadocian and the Diablerie of Saulot but I'd argue that Gratiano's Embrace uniqueness stems exactly from how common it was.

    By which I mean that while Augustus' Embrace was more akin to the Cappadocians creating a bloodline rather than an Embrace proper (Cappadocius didn't even rise from slumber to do the deed) and the Tremere's usurpation of the Salubri's place among the Clans of Caine was just that, a violent usurpation rather than an Embrace), Lasombra's Embrace of Gratiano was unique because it was not unlike the Becoming of every other 4th Generation, except in the "modern" nights. While all other Antediluvians are either missing or in endless slumber, this one decides to do an act that was last performed before the first stones of Rome were set in place.

    Leave a comment:


  • HardestadtTheEvenYounger
    replied
    Originally posted by James_Willoughby View Post

    How would anyone actually know? There aren't any newspaper gossip pages in the medieval period, particularly not for Cainites. Even within the clan itself, there would not necessarily be many who would be aware of Gratiano's embrace. Outside the clan, and outside Italy, there are probably very few people who would know of the event.
    Cainite society is small, smaller still in those nights. And they have supernatural means of spreading information. How quickly did foreign powers learn of a Prince's birth? Because I expect the news of the Embrace of a new 4th Generation would spread even more easily.

    Leave a comment:


  • James_Willoughby
    replied
    Originally posted by HardestadtTheEvenYounger View Post
    Out of nowhere, an Antediluvian rises from its endless torpor and decides to sire a random mortal. How did Cainites react to this almost unthinkable event? Just imagine the seething jealousy every Lasombra must have felt.
    And you'd think that Gratiano would have had to be kept under every protection imaginable just to survive his first few years as a vampire. Suddenly, there is 4th Generation vitae in the body of a neonate.
    How would anyone actually know? There aren't any newspaper gossip pages in the medieval period, particularly not for Cainites. Even within the clan itself, there would not necessarily be many who would be aware of Gratiano's embrace. Outside the clan, and outside Italy, there are probably very few people who would know of the event.

    Leave a comment:


  • AnubisXy
    replied
    I suspect it set off some rumors and gossip in the various Kindred courts (I imagine you had similar rumors when Cappadocius embraced Auggie.) But I don't think most people outside of the Lasombra particularly cared all ithat much. It probably wasn't viewed immediately as a huge deal, though certainly people would be paying attention to see what would happen down the line. Presumably Lasombra had something in mind, but I imagine most people had better things to do than try to divine his intentions ad so most people would likely have an attitude of, "Well let's not worry too hard right now and wait to see what this fledgling ends up doing."

    Once Gratanio diablarized Lasombra, well suddenly everyone sat up and took notice, but by that point Europe was stuck in the middle the Anarch war and residual witch hunts so most vampires had more important things to worry about.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Mind you, I have the view that a lot of clans viewed the Antediluvians as their rulers. People who were distant and had many layers from you but were absolute force of nature that you can't actually deal with.

    Survive, perhaps.

    If Lasombra has Embraced some Spanish Prince, you watch that guy because he's part of a world-shaking plan.

    Leave a comment:


  • False Epiphany
    replied
    Don't forget the Tremere, too. Or all of the fourth gens who were still around and Embracig progeny. Powerful vitae in a neonate's body is nothing new, and the difference between a fourth and fifth gen fledgling is one of degrees rather than magnitude.

    While the last big chunk of Anteiluvian Embraces tapers off around the Roman Empire, which was about as long ago then as the Middle Ages were now. There were a lot of elders and methuselahs who remembered an era where the Antediluvians were closer to fact than myth.

    I'd largely agree with "And so what?" as the reaction.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by HardestadtTheEvenYounger View Post
    Out of nowhere, an Antediluvian rises from its endless torpor and decides to sire a random mortal. How did Cainites react to this almost unthinkable event? Just imagine the seething jealousy every Lasombra must have felt.
    And you'd think that Gratiano would have had to be kept under every protection imaginable just to survive his first few years as a vampire. Suddenly, there is 4th Generation vitae in the body of a neonate.
    My opinion is probably, "And so what?"

    The Antediluvians in the Dark Ages weren't considered particularly endless sleeping things. Cappadocias was awake around that time too and he Embraced Augustus Giovanni. There were also plenty of other recently embraced Methuselahs like the ones in Germany, comparatively speaking. It's only after the Dark Ages did Gehenna fervor grip the world and people assumed the Antediluvians were a myth due to the propaganda of the Camarilla. Back then, they were an established fact of life and even if Lasombra isn't asleep, his 6000+ year old progeny are awake that might as well be Antediluvians.

    Also, you'd have to be UTTERLY INSANE to try to attack the newly Embraced progeny of an Antediluvian.

    You probably couldn't get within 100 yards of him without Lasombra ordering you to eat your own heart.

    Obviously, YMMV.
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 12-26-2020, 07:05 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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