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V20 Vicissitude and physical impediments

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  • V20 Vicissitude and physical impediments

    I am curious to the limits of Vicissitude, and I wonder if applied to a mortal, it can:
    1. Heal physical impediments like nearsightedness (myopia)?
    2. Heal physical impediments like missing organs?
    3. Identify cancerous cells?
    4. Remove cancerous cells?
    5. Alter cancerous cells so they are no longer cancerous?
    6. Remove body fat from the body (liposuction)?
    Thanks for the time and attention.
    Last edited by lbeaumanior; 01-03-2021, 12:04 AM.

  • #2
    The fundamental point and the reason why its so cool (pre-V5 Vicissitude of course) was that it is a completely freeform Discipline that allows you to do anything within the realm of your thought/imagination. Everything you listed can be done (though I'd have it that you'd atleast have a few dots in medicine to even know what your doing; which is the reason most Tzimisce embrace medical professionals). Just go crazy.


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    • #3
      If you can do something with mundane surgery, you can do it with Vicissitude, probably a little better. Of course, knowing how to do something with mundane surgery requires a lot of knowledge. I don't believe vicissitude alone has any 'identify' ability, but it's not a coincidence that Tzmisce have Auspex too.


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      • #4
        1, definitely, 2, Maybe, probably with rituals, like those used to make the melded war ghouls, 3,4,5 probably not, cellular manipulation is stretching it, but doing what a surgeon could, certainly. 6. Yes, this is used as an example in fact (Death and the Soul Tzim can tell you exactly how much you can remove before the patient dies, they have experiments to prove it). Vis would be the tool used, you would need the knowledge of what exactly to do, Auspex would help for assessing things as well

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        • #5
          1. Heal physical impediments like nearsightedness (myopia)? Yes, with enough medicine
          2. Heal physical impediments like missing organs? Yes, with enough medicine and a source of flesh or spare organs
          3. Identify cancerous cells? No. The discipline doesn't grant knowledge.
          4. Remove cancerous cells? Yes.
          5. Alter cancerous cells so they are no longer cancerous? In theory it allows cellular alteration, but this is pushing genetic alteration, which is beyond what it can do. A clever use might be able to figure out how to do this.
          6. Remove body fat from the body (liposuction)? Yes. This one is trivial for them to do.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
            I am curious to the limits of Vicissitude, and I wonder if it applied to a mortal, it can:
            1. Heal physical impediments like nearsightedness (myopia)?
            2. Heal physical impediments like missing organs?
            3. Identify cancerous cells?
            4. Remove cancerous cells?
            5. Alter cancerous cells so they are no longer cancerous?
            6. Remove body fat from the body (liposuction)?
            Thanks for the time and attention.
            I would say anything that requires extreme precision on a micro level is out of the question. In most editions the use of viscissitude is likened to working stiff clay. Adjusting the focusing properties of the eye is far too delicate for working clay. Bear in mind that you are doing this with your hands and not with surgical tools. Further more anything too small to be grasped or manipulated by the hands/claws/tentacles of the viscissitude user is also likely to be out of the question, which means manipulating individual cells or adjusting things on that level isn't viable.

            There is a reason why Vozhd construction often requires Kuldonic sorcery to bridge the gap between what Vicissitude can and can't do.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Thoth View Post
              Adjusting the focusing properties of the eye is far too delicate for working clay. Bear in mind that you are doing this with your hands and not with surgical tools. Further more anything too small to be grasped or manipulated by the hands/claws/tentacles of the viscissitude user is also likely to be out of the question, which means manipulating individual cells or adjusting things on that level isn't viable.
              Yet Viscissitude allows the Tzimisce to mimic another person, including eye color. How would one mold oneself into earth or mist? Clay is just a metaphor. Dominate applied to flesh is what does the work, not clumsy fingers, hence the Amalgam.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Nehekhare View Post

                Yet Viscissitude allows the Tzimisce to mimic another person, including eye color. How would one mold oneself into earth or mist? Clay is just a metaphor. Dominate applied to flesh is what does the work, not clumsy fingers, hence the Amalgam.
                Thanks for the answer, but I am asking for V20, no amalgams there, it is a discipline of its own.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nehekhare View Post
                  Yet Viscissitude allows the Tzimisce to mimic another person, including eye color. How would one mold oneself into earth or mist? Clay is just a metaphor. Dominate applied to flesh is what does the work, not clumsy fingers, hence the Amalgam.
                  In V20 and earlier versions, Viscissitude requires direct manual manipulation when using the power on others. So the subject of how Protean earth meld or Mist form is applied doesn't apply.

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                  • #10
                    I think the level 5 power demonstrates the potential of Vicissitude to alter tissues on a cellular level, but one would have to develop a custom elder discipline power to work such comprehensive changes on others.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
                      I am curious to the limits of Vicissitude, and I wonder if applied to a mortal, it can:
                      1. Heal physical impediments like nearsightedness (myopia)?
                      2. Heal physical impediments like missing organs?
                      3. Identify cancerous cells?
                      4. Remove cancerous cells?
                      5. Alter cancerous cells so they are no longer cancerous?
                      6. Remove body fat from the body (liposuction)?

                      Thanks for the time and attention.
                      The definitive answer is... maybe.

                      At different times Vicissitude has been interpreted as to be so so evil that is cannot even be used to heal wounds and probably causes cancer when used on the living. Vicissitude is a power provided Tzimisce and Kupula, a vampire god-thing and demon-lord respectively, so there is something to this argument.

                      Even aside from that, what you describe here would have different levels of difficultly. Removing fat would be comparatively simple, say a couple of success at a difficulty of 5. Fixing myopia would require a great deal of finesse and attention to detail, and require multiple successes at a higher difficult, say three or four success at a 7 not succeed and not blind the target. A lot of Tzimisce - usually the only ones to possess Vicissitude - find it easier to smash things that to repair or build things.

                      I doubt it could be used to find cancer, but it probably could be used to remove a tumor.

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                      • #12
                        What do you guys think of the Dark Ages version of Vicissitude that swaps out the level 5 power?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Vamps Like Us View Post
                          What do you guys think of the Dark Ages version of Vicissitude that swaps out the level 5 power?

                          The sever body parts and have them slither around thing? It's...interesting I guess?

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                          • #14
                            I prefer bloodform but honestly it should kinda be both?


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                              I prefer bloodform but honestly it should kinda be both?

                              Having both in one pick may be a bit to good, I would go for bloodform over Thing mode (Addams family, not horror movie mode )

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