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  • That's an interesting idea. I guess it depends on if and how you want to incorporate Mummy, since that pretty much confirms the Set/Osiris and Children of Osiris stories.

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    • Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
      That's an interesting idea. I guess it depends on if and how you want to incorporate Mummy, since that pretty much confirms the Set/Osiris and Children of Osiris stories.
      I admit I only read the original Mummy where Horus' opinion is his father was a complete asshole, unlike mythology


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      • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

        THE CHILDREN OF OSIRIS IS A SCAM THEORY
        It occurs to me that Osiris never actually lived long enough to create any sort of religion, let alone one that was devoted to humanity and goodness. I was wondering, possibly then, if the Children of Osiris were created by Khemintiri herself. Imagine that she was someone who had serious issues with the Followers of Set (no shit) and wanted an army of her own against them. Being a Follower of Set, though, she knew that religion is a great way to motivate people to sacrifice themselves.
        I absolutely dig this theory
        Reminds me of the theories about Saulot not being a saint and he experimented a lot with his descendants creating different bloodlines and feeding them lies (I actually like the idea of Saulot being truly good-hearted, but I understand in the context of vampire a bleaker truth is fitting)

        As for the original Mummy and Horus saying that his father was an asshole... Horus could have been telling some lies too or maybe having very biased opinions or his own agenda
        This of course if we take for granted that Horus is the same being from egyptian mythology and not someone that just took the role...


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        • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

          THE CHILDREN OF OSIRIS IS A SCAM THEORY

          One of the theories I had about the Children of Osiris was the discovery that Khemintiri has seven dots in Bardo. Now this is something she might have learned from the Children of Osiris herself and might have been why she was able to keep her (Low) Humanity. However, with her immense age and power, I had a couple of other thoughts. Specifically, way back in the Followers of Set book, there was actually a version of the story where Osiris is resurrected by Isis and is torn apart after devouring his son.

          It occurs to me that Osiris never actually lived long enough to create any sort of religion, let alone one that was devoted to humanity and goodness. I was wondering, possibly then, if the Children of Osiris were created by Khemintiri herself. Imagine that she was someone who had serious issues with the Followers of Set (no shit) and wanted an army of her own against them. Being a Follower of Set, though, she knew that religion is a great way to motivate people to sacrifice themselves.

          Rather than use herself as the goddess of the cult and possibly make herself a target, she instead recruits other vampires and weaves a tale about how Osiris was actually a holy, good, and kind figure who wanted Kindred to find their humanity again. She also proceeds to teach that the Followers of Set are pure evil and must be destroyed (no shit). The Children of Osiris thus become a bloodline created by her powerful magic that develop their own Discipline that she proceeds to unleash upon her enemies. All based on a dogma of lies.
          And who is to say differently?

          Set?

          Horus?
          Originally, Osiris childe Khetamon impersonated Osiris and founded the Children. The original Children of Osiris went extinct during the days of Rome, and was refounded by Kheminitri around then, possibly with some help from her lover Mithras. That also most of what we know about the Children except what we have directly from Osiris/Khetamon and his son Horus.

          Who was Kheminitris lover in her mortal days. And now you know why he and Mithras came to blows once in London.

          So yes, its canon more or less.

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          • Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post

            They probably did that because Ba'al Hammon was the god of Carthage and there were stories about the people of Carthage engaging in ritual sacrifice including children. With something like that I imagine that including the Baali in Carthage was just too tempting to avoid on the part of the writers.
            Baal Hammon were probably the biblical Moloch, and the husband of Tiamat. Which may mean that they were originally Moloch and Troile. Of course, Tiamat is already a kindred.

            Baal Hammon is also sometimes thought to have been the same deity as Baal Haddad due to similarities in their cults. Baal Haddad was pretty much a different name for Set. Which has interesting implications..

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            • Originally posted by Trollroot View Post
              Originally, Osiris childe Khetamon impersonated Osiris and founded the Children. The original Children of Osiris went extinct during the days of Rome, and was refounded by Kheminitri around then, possibly with some help from her lover Mithras. That also most of what we know about the Children except what we have directly from Osiris/Khetamon and his son Horus.

              Who was Kheminitris lover in her mortal days. And now you know why he and Mithras came to blows once in London.

              So yes, its canon more or less.
              If this is current lore, it is retroactive continuity. Where are you getting this information? I'm sure there is some (likely late dated) sourcebook that has, but this contradicts the original established lore in 1992/1994.

              The Children of Osiris never went extinct during the days of Rome. They've been hiding in Nepal/Tibet since Khetamon fled Egypt. Maybe the Setites believe they destroyed the Children during the age of Rome, but if so they're wrong.

              Why Keminitiri knows Bardo has been explained since her entry in Kindred's Most Wanted in 1994 (which also gave her stats). After she fled Set and descended into the Wassail, Khetamon found her, rendered her unconscious, and used early variants of Bardo to restore her to some kind of human consciousness. She spent many years in tutelage with the Children of Osiris, but could never control her hatred of Set and so eventually left (with a lot of the secrets of the Children of Osiris). She's basically an apostate Children of Osiris. The Children now hunt her because 1) she's mad and extremely dangerous, and 2) she might possibly reveal certain things about the Children (like their location!) they don't want known (though in several thousand years she doesn't appear to have done so). There is no mystery to explain UNLESS you want to ignore canon and come up with your own idea because you like it better.

              I think we're likely talking about another "well on Earth-One it is like this, while on Earth-Two it is like this other thing." If so, that's OK. Almost all my books are from the 1990s, and I own very little of anything in the late Revised era, most V20 (except the corebook), and all V5 products.

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              • Originally posted by Black Fox View Post

                If this is current lore, it is retroactive continuity. Where are you getting this information? I'm sure there is some (likely late dated) sourcebook that has, but this contradicts the original established lore in 1992/1994.

                The Children of Osiris never went extinct during the days of Rome. They've been hiding in Nepal/Tibet since Khetamon fled Egypt. Maybe the Setites believe they destroyed the Children during the age of Rome, but if so they're wrong.

                Why Keminitiri knows Bardo has been explained since her entry in Kindred's Most Wanted in 1994 (which also gave her stats). After she fled Set and descended into the Wassail, Khetamon found her, rendered her unconscious, and used early variants of Bardo to restore her to some kind of human consciousness. She spent many years in tutelage with the Children of Osiris, but could never control her hatred of Set and so eventually left (with a lot of the secrets of the Children of Osiris). She's basically an apostate Children of Osiris. The Children now hunt her because 1) she's mad and extremely dangerous, and 2) she might possibly reveal certain things about the Children (like their location!) they don't want known (though in several thousand years she doesn't appear to have done so). There is no mystery to explain UNLESS you want to ignore canon and come up with your own idea because you like it better.

                I think we're likely talking about another "well on Earth-One it is like this, while on Earth-Two it is like this other thing." If so, that's OK. Almost all my books are from the 1990s, and I own very little of anything in the late Revised era, most V20 (except the corebook), and all V5 products.
                It is from "Dread names, Red list" which expands a bit on Kheminitri and the Children of Osiris. The Children of Osiris relocated to Rome with Kheminitri and Mithras in the first century CE. Some time after that they were extinguished. Kheminitri reformed them in the 1300s. it is notable that almost everything we know about the Children of Osiris, Bardo etc come from this incarnation and so is filtered through Kheminitri. Almost everything, because Osiris/Khetamon is still active.

                I started this thread trying to compile all the relevant information across the editions.

                The entry does have a few other interesting tidbits, although not necessarily germane to this thread: Kheminitri were befriended by Serethor, a fourth generation vampire who was described as one of the Children of Osiris and a childe of Khetamon. And also that Kheminitri is well thought of in Lihannon lore, and seems to have gotten along very well with the Crone in the British Isles.

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                • AFAIK the Children didn't got much in lore update for a long time, their main sources were Hunters Hunted and Kindred's Most Wanted through her entry. So it is understandable that when they decided to tackle the matter again in V20 they did some expansion and retcon, if not in the best way, maybe. It sounds a lot as just denying credibility to "good guys".

                  Personally I'm using the old lore and not having them break up completely, although there may very well have been a reformation of sorts at some point.

                  But all that said, what does that really means? Khetamon still takes part in it, and Khemintiri is a... peculiar person. Her memory seems to be very good, so while she may not be a stellar example of the Children she possibly remembers their ways exceedingly well. She's usually locked in an alternate persona that can sometimes be good as a saint, and the fact she was thinking about the Children at the time means she was likely to be in a reasonably amicable persona to their cause. And at the end of the day, we have their current situation and philosophy to be measured directly, along with Bardo, to evaluate it by what it's worth regardless of the original version. As far as we know, she may even have improved them at the eyes of Osiris.
                  Last edited by monteparnas; 05-29-2022, 08:11 PM.


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                  • Originally posted by Trollroot View Post

                    It is from "Dread names, Red list" which expands a bit on Kheminitri and the Children of Osiris. The Children of Osiris relocated to Rome with Kheminitri and Mithras in the first century CE. Some time after that they were extinguished. Kheminitri reformed them in the 1300s. it is notable that almost everything we know about the Children of Osiris, Bardo etc come from this incarnation and so is filtered through Kheminitri. Almost everything, because Osiris/Khetamon is still active.

                    I started this thread trying to compile all the relevant information across the editions.

                    The entry does have a few other interesting tidbits, although not necessarily germane to this thread: Kheminitri were befriended by Serethor, a fourth generation vampire who was described as one of the Children of Osiris and a childe of Khetamon. And also that Kheminitri is well thought of in Lihannon lore, and seems to have gotten along very well with the Crone in the British Isles.
                    DAV20 has the Children of Osiris existing in the 13th century just fine, as far as trying to treat any of that as definitive.

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