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  • Embraced Animals

    Let me preface this as I think the idea is dumb. However, when talking to some of my friends and reading older VtM books, apparently this was, at one time, perfectly legit. In addition to Berlin by Night, I saw a reference to it in the 1e Dark Ages Book of Storyteller Secrets- not only with regards to Gargoyle animals, there's a line where it says "unlike other Embraced animals, Gargoyle animals instinctively know to avoid the sun". I thought for sure that White Wolf came out and said "no, you can't Embrace Fido" at some point, but I'm not sure when or where. So my question is: when was it decided this sort of thing was possible, and when was it decided it wasn't, exactly?

    Further, since some of the Gargoyle animals were reprinted in Blood Magic: Secrets of Thaumaturgy, are these creatures still, somehow, animal vampires, or something else again? Does the Soul of the Earth Ritual crank out mutated animal ghouls?

  • #2
    Berlin By Night was reconned signficantly. Ignore.. nearly everything in it. IF you care about seeing it "fixed" look at JHD that's the closest you will get..

    As for Embracing animals.. I am pretty sure its "Successful" so much as you'd have a Blood sucking dog.... but its also lacks the rationality of Humanitas much less the capacity to be pushed onto more alien moralities. Gargoyle animals were made with magic Extensive understanding of what the Tremere did to make Garrgoyles and gargoyle adjacent body horror is covered in House of Tremere

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    • #3
      I remember a old discussion about this in another now dead forum where some people presented sources for embraced animals. I don't remember the sources, only what was mentioned.


      Aside from the gargoyle animals exemple, there was also vampire serpents made by setites, and I don't remember the source but I think it was a special case, like a sorcery thing, or maybe only one setite used to do that.

      The consensus in that old thread is that yes animals may me embraced, but the further they are from mammals, harder it is to work, and even those who succed might not have the skills to survive long. They are instantly wights who act by istinct, but their istinct is wrong most of the time, not adapted to their new life. And even those who learn to avoid the sun might some day fail to find a place do hide due to luck, caves collapse, storms fill dens, etc.



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      • #4
        I think the ruling against was in the VTM FAQ of the Revised Era, which appeared in the VSTHB, I think?

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        • #5
          There were Kindred snakes in Berlin by Night but I think they retconned that.


          “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

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          • #6
            Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
            I think the ruling against was in the VTM FAQ of the Revised Era, which appeared in the VSTHB, I think?

            Caine was in berlin by night. It was... a special book. Also so many nazis

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            • #7
              Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
              I think the ruling against was in the VTM FAQ of the Revised Era, which appeared in the VSTHB, I think?
              I checked, and unfortunately, all the FAQ clarifies is what happens when you try to Embrace other supernatural creatures. I do remember seeing a passage somewhere that says something like "some vampires will stick their fangs into anything" as an aside towards this sort of nonsense. I've always been against vampire animals as the idea seems very silly, but obviously, ghoul animals exist (and so might revenant animals) so I can certainly see why someone might see the logic in allowing their creation. Of course, yes, I do agree, instant Wight-hood seems likely, without Disciplines as a workaround, if this was something that could be allowed. Maybe with Kinfolk wolves? I'm mostly against it, but if a player really wants something, I usually try to give them an option. I guess what they are looking for is a 'pet' that can gain higher level Disciplines than a standard ghoul without needing stupidly-low Generation. But I can't see any Prince not immediately demanding such a creature be destroyed, since how can you expect an Alligator to obey the Traditions?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Lian View Post


                Caine was in berlin by night. It was... a special book. Also so many nazis
                Actually that was a fake Caine. But I agree. It was messed up.


                “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

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                • #9
                  Aabbt Kindred is the term.

                  The 4th Generation Setite Nefertiti made some from Cobras. As I remember from the rules, animals come out 3 generations further away from Caine than they should be, and seem to be naturally wights. They retain some mental functions and can increase them if they have a very long time extant. They have no kindred instincts and no virtues. That means they have no idea that they should avoid sunlight, and little capacity to learn. So they will perish in short order.

                  Nefertitis Cobras seem to have been made using a high-level Serpentis power and gave them a new set of instincts.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lynceus View Post
                    I'm mostly against it, but if a player really wants something, I usually try to give them an option. I guess what they are looking for is a 'pet' that can gain higher level Disciplines than a standard ghoul without needing stupidly-low Generation.
                    I've always thought "GMs should never say no" is dumb advice, but that "GMs should offer an alternative when they say no" is good advice.

                    I find the concept of vampire animals to be silly, and would say no if a player wanted one. But I might present an alternative like an unusually powerful animal ghoul ("you're the only vampire in the city with their own pet tiger!"), a nonsentient supernatural companion of some kind (there are a bunch of critters from other game lines), an animal ghoul modified by Vicissitude to be even more deadly, or a "hand-me-down" animal ghoul from an elder vampire that's been around long enough to be more powerful than typical ghoul animals. One of the elders in Cairo by Night had an ancient ghoul lion that had grown to enormous size and developed a rudimentary intelligence.

                    There are lots of ways PCs can have cool pets without needing something silly like vampire animals.


                    Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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                    • #11
                      First of we don't talk about Berlin by Night. It doesn't exist, period.

                      I don't think vampire animals should be possible in general. Sure there is the occasional experiment with some but unless they are some plot devices, they should be wassil at the embrace.

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