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On the subject of the Second Inquisition & the masqurade

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  • #32
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    Honestly, recent years HAVE kind of soured me on the Technocracy. If the secret masters of the Earth's governments really WERE a progressive pro-science group, totalitarian or not, then the world would be a very different place indeed.

    The secret masters of the Earth, whoever they be, DO NOT CARE in this universe and would not care in the WOD.
    .
    And for some reason people screamed it made no sense for the Technocracy to be taken over by Nephandi...

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    • #33
      Originally posted by Lian View Post

      And for some reason people screamed it made no sense for the Technocracy to be taken over by Nephandi...
      The Seers of the Throne may not be COMPLEX villains but it is silly to say they're not REALISTIC.

      Ditto, my hate of Pentex has gone down since it turns out the only thing you need to persuade people to pollute the world and kill million is cash.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • #34
        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

        The Seers of the Throne may not be COMPLEX villains but it is silly to say they're not REALISTIC.

        Ditto, my hate of Pentex has gone down since it turns out the only thing you need to persuade people to pollute the world and kill million is cash.


        Yeah sometimes I think Pentex and captain planet villains are actually TOO Nuanced That having a goal other than "Make money now ignore six months from now" is all you need. Honestly it makes want to reboot the idea with Vampires of some sort as antithetical to the wyrm since.... they have to fucking live with shit. OR at least exist.

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        • #35
          ^every time the Garou find out about a nefarious wyrm company , it's not due to Gaian spies, its because someone started hedging their bets.

          With that in mind, can you blame me for suspecting the SI? They're no doubt servants for some wallet.

          The first Inquisition was lawfully done by one international organization in an era where communication was slow and the overwhelming majority believed in the supernatural. Many had great faith and could thus avoid significant compromises in internal security.

          The second inquisition is covertly done by supposedly a connected collection of fractions from goverment agencies and a few terrorist groups. Their activities are secretive and very little of the public believes in the supernatural or the work these agencies would be doing cracking down on the supernatural. Whilst this new inquisition has faster communication technologies, those are things that can be used against them. There's virtually no internal security, but also nobody can really know what's internal or not because it's a patchwork organization built up from highly suspicious entities...

          Yeah they're really not comparable. The FI was believable. The SI is bound to be a clusterfuck without a fix.
          -The technocracy is controlling everything from behind the scenes, after they finally deemed vampires threatening enough. Not so interesting an answer.
          -This is really vampires just culling their numbers and showing how great and necessary the Camarilla is. Which would explain a lot of the plot in V5
          Last edited by MyWifeIsScary; 02-24-2021, 03:29 AM.


          Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
          There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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          • #36
            Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
            The biggest threat to rich guys are other rich guys...
            If that's true, why do rich guys try so hard to prevent their workers from unionizing?

            ​If that's true, why do they lobby politicians to support them stamping out our rights?

            Why do they support the police so handsomely?

            Why do they pit us against each other?

            ​Why did they stubbornly insist we stay at work during a raging pandemic, risking it mutating into something even worse, instead of letting us get the merest taste of what it's like to not have to bust our balls for them?

            ​No, the biggest threat to rich guys is the poor people they stole from to get rich, and they know it. They're terrified of us realizing that they are cruel, monstrous parasites; they're terrified of us realizing that we'd be healthier without them leeching from us. So that's why there's a Masquerade.
            Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 02-24-2021, 01:04 PM.


            He/him

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            • #37
              Yet, no revolution. And the thing with the SI is that they're not composed of proletarian comrades, they're -the goverment- and -the church- , two of the biggest sex-partners for the rich and powerful. That's what makes it so absurd. That 'The goverment' (The SI) is after the wealthy elite (vampires) when reality is the two have been holding hands the entire time. The government works for the parasites, not against them. The SI goes against the natural circlejerk-order of things, and it's an inappropriate top-down approach to justice. We don't such have justice in reality, why should we have such justice in game? It's just wishful thinking.


              Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
              There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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              • #38
                Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                And the thing with the SI is that they're not composed of proletarian comrades...
                Some are, but you intentionally wrote them off earlier.


                He/him

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                • #39
                  Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                  Some are, but you intentionally wrote them off earlier.
                  The SI, to my knowledge, is big-gov and church. Junkies and amatuers may continue to hunt, but they're not getting absorbed into 'The Man' SI.


                  Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
                  There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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                  • #40
                    Honestly, I think the problem with the Second Inquisition from vampires is they THINK that it's a massive global conspiracy.

                    When it's actually just a dozen vampire hunting organizations given some help by powerful government (and probably corporate) patrons which utterly fucks over vampires who are not nearly as rich or powerful as they think they are.

                    You don't need all of humanity to screw over 100K vampires.

                    10K hunters with money, weapons, and politics can shatter their power structures.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                    • #41
                      Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                      Yet, no revolution. And the thing with the SI is that they're not composed of proletarian comrades, they're -the goverment- and -the church- , two of the biggest sex-partners for the rich and powerful. That's what makes it so absurd. That 'The goverment' (The SI) is after the wealthy elite (vampires) when reality is the two have been holding hands the entire time. The government works for the parasites, not against them. The SI goes against the natural circlejerk-order of things, and it's an inappropriate top-down approach to justice. We don't such have justice in reality, why should we have such justice in game? It's just wishful thinking.
                      The nature of history is that those at the top are uninterested in sharing power. They’ll cooperate right up until one of them decides the other has reached the limit of their usefulness and eliminates them.

                      That’s why the SI makes perfect sense. The human elites at the top have decided that the vampire elite no longer serves their needs and have decided to eliminate them as rivals to the uppermost ranks of power... so they’re killing them and taking their stuff; as the stronger elites have done to the weaker elites throughout history (while the peasants aren’t even considered at all).

                      My hunch is the real human powers behind the SI don’t even care about wiping out vampires entirely. They care about taking the wealth and influence of the powerful vampires for their own. Other than as a propaganda tool for the crusade they couldn’t care less about guttersnipe vampires who live in abandoned buildings and only feed off the lower classes. Crime, poverty and hopelessness keep the peasants from organizing against them and having predators who feed on them to keep their focus elsewhere is just one more tool to keep the oppressed oppressed.

                      Side-bar: regarding the Technocracy, it’s worth distinguishing the idealist progressive rank and file who see the Technocracy as the ideal tool to realize all the good ends they profess... and their own elites who exploit the rank and file idealists and use them as tools to exert their own fascist vision for reality.

                      Compare the rank and file BLM member who wants racial justice and politicians who back them who only care about exploiting racial injustice to line their own pockets instead of moving to actually solve the problem (because if the problem gets solved their jobs are no longer needed).

                      The same goes for the Wyrm; ordinary human greed is just its easiest vector for corruption. But there is something spiritually broken in people who already have more money than they could spend in lifetimes still hungering for more and seeking to rob the poor of what little they have to get it (look at who’s buying up all the properties of small mom & pop shops driven out of business by the pandemic while the businesses of the corporate oligarchs were allowed to remain open).

                      There’s your angle for Werewolf. The Wyrm isn’t just someone who’s rich because they created something that made the world a better place or by providing top notch service to their customers, treating their employees well and maybe having a nice house and car. It’s the corruption that drives your hedge funds like Mitt Romney’s to short successful companies and drive down their value so they can profit on the way down, gain majority control for a song, then break up and sell off the company’s assets for more profits while putting hundreds and thousands of people out of work.

                      Hell, for a modern evolution, Pentex should be the driving force in the green technology movement; replacing genuine environmentalism and respect for nature with the idea that you buy absolution in the form of “carbon credits” or bogus green tech like wind and solar which burn more fossil fuels to build than they’ll ever produce, require rare earth elements mined using forced labor of indigenous peoples in distant lands, and decimate local wildlife where they’re set up... but it makes you feel good without having to do any real work to make the world better and if that doesn’t feel like the sort of lie the Wyrm would sell I don’t know what is.

                      It all fits together once you start following the “money.” Under that model it makes perfect sense that Big Government and Big Church would unite to break up Big Blood to further enrich themselves.

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                      • #42
                        Originally posted by Chris24601 View Post
                        The nature of history is that those at the top are uninterested in sharing power. They’ll cooperate right up until one of them decides the other has reached the limit of their usefulness and eliminates them.

                        That’s why the SI makes perfect sense. The human elites at the top have decided that the vampire elite no longer serves their needs and have decided to eliminate them as rivals to the uppermost ranks of power... so they’re killing them and taking their stuff; as the stronger elites have done to the weaker elites throughout history (while the peasants aren’t even considered at all).

                        My hunch is the real human powers behind the SI don’t even care about wiping out vampires entirely. They care about taking the wealth and influence of the powerful vampires for their own. Other than as a propaganda tool for the crusade they couldn’t care less about guttersnipe vampires who live in abandoned buildings and only feed off the lower classes. Crime, poverty and hopelessness keep the peasants from organizing against them and having predators who feed on them to keep their focus elsewhere is just one more tool to keep the oppressed oppressed.
                        -You're misconstruing the nature of power. Nepotism and cronyism has it's place, and there's the idea that -if X goes down, I'll go down-.. Remember, capitalism for the poor, socialism for the rich. Old money types have no misgivings about bending over to help one of their number that has fallen into financial straits. We don't live in the world of kings and emperors, but businessmen.

                        -more notably, the SI is targeting the poorer (relatively speaking) vampires more than the elites, so your argument really falls apart again.


                        Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
                        There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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                        • #43
                          Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                          -more notably, the SI is targeting the poorer (relatively speaking) vampires more than the elites, so your argument really falls apart again.
                          Yes, except for:

                          * The Sabbat
                          * The Giovanni
                          * The entirety of London
                          * The Tremere

                          Which is probably about 70% of the meaningful successes of the Second Inquisition. Yes, other vampires "let" the Second Inquisition hit all of these places but that's because vampires can't bring themselves to unite against a threat when they can direct it to another of their enemies.


                          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                          • #44
                            Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                            Yes, except for:

                            * The Sabbat
                            * The Giovanni
                            * The entirety of London
                            * The Tremere

                            Which is probably about 70% of the meaningful successes of the Second Inquisition. Yes, other vampires "let" the Second Inquisition hit all of these places but that's because vampires can't bring themselves to unite against a threat when they can direct it to another of their enemies.
                            Wait? What?

                            - Fucked off for war
                            - Vampire-led Coup
                            - Not-as-devastating as advertised
                            - Inside job.

                            Hardly a good refutation.


                            Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
                            There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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                            • #45
                              Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                              Wait? What?

                              - Fucked off for war
                              - Vampire-led Coup
                              - Not-as-devastating as advertised
                              - Inside job.

                              Hardly a good refutation.
                              1. Lost Mexico City and Montreal to the Second Inquisition before the Camairlla moved in.
                              2. The Second Inquisition hit the Mauseoleum beforehand
                              3. It left London as a burnt out hellhole with either a dead Prince or a dead Methuselah or both
                              4. Inside Job or not, the SI killed hundreds of Elders.

                              The thing is that if the SI is being helped by vampires that DOESNT MAKE THEM LESS DEADLY.

                              It just means that vampires are bone-headedly stupid in their arrogance.




                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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