On the subject of the Second Inquisition & the masqurade

[AscentionTheMage]

A prominent question V5 raises is why does the Second Inquision effectively inforce the masqurade, keeping the truth of kindred society away from the normies? My take on this question is this: The SI is primarily made up of the FBI, the CIA & the NSA, institutions that bolsters themselves on being infallible, efficient and more-than-compitent, and yet the kindred have been able to operate under their noses since their inception. The public have already lost respect and faith in these orginisations, some even go so far as to advocate the abolishment of the FBI. If the public were to learn about kindred society, they would likely lampoon the inteligence comunity for being too incompitent to protect them from this exstitential threat. Thats why I think the SI keeps the secrets, to save face. Alternitivly, the SI might be afraid that if the public were to learn about vamps, and therefore about ghouling and the embrace, undesirable ellement might get their hands on vampire blood and become ghouls or in extreme cases become or create kindred themselves, therefore having enough power to overthrow the goverment. Do Y'all think I'm on the money on this, or do you have an alternative theory?

[Morbus]

There's absolutely no sign of that from the way its presented in terms of fractions. It seems every 13th generation vampire is able to make them but 14th and 15th and 16th have difficulty doing it.

An interesting headcanon but I'll need some sources on 13th generation being all able to make thin bloods. As far as I know they can also (very rarely) make non thin blooded 14th generation or just botch the embrace. Embracing a thin blood is never a certainty, my odds are maybe off but the random factor is still cannon. So my point stands.

Also, Thin Bloods are a HUGE rising number, which can't happen if that's remotely the fraction.

Why not? You just need to adjust the bodycount accordingly. If Thin Bloods are so huge in V5, I'd assume they would have adressed that issue. Because the reason why they are so few in V:TM is directly related to the fact that embracing one is by no means a certainty.

And also them being so weak that any random human being can do God's work with a firearm.

Or let the Sun do it. Because yes, not all thinbloods are immune to sunrays. It just take more seconds for them to be down.

And I have not even touched on how "young tech billionaire" knows about vampirism and the different forms it can take. But since we are talking about V5, I will adjust my expectation accordingly and let this slide.

[CTPhipps]

Sounds really stupid. Aren't Thin Bloods supposed to be a 1/10 successful embrace?

There's absolutely no sign of that from the way its presented in terms of fractions. It seems every 13th generation vampire is able to make them but 14th and 15th and 16th have difficulty doing it.

Also, Thin Bloods are a HUGE rising number, which can't happen if that's remotely the fraction.

Even the thin bloods who have sunlight resistance take agrivated damage when exposed to direct sunlight, they can only go out on cloudy days. Also thinblood offspring are weaker than Revenants, unless V5 makes Dhamphirs stronger. I always wonderer what happened when a thinblood impregnated another thinblood? Would the resulting Dhamphirs be stronger than Dhamphirs with one dusk parent and one human parent?

All of which I, myself, would take in exchange for:

* Being awake during the day
* Being permanently "Blush of Life" and effectively alive
* Being able to eat food
* Able to survive on Blood that would make most vampires sick.
* Immortality

[AscentionTheMage]

Pre V5 at least, 14th isn't nearly as bad as 1/10 (but is at most half successful) and 15th is... still not as bad as 1/10th successsful. 16th gens are births, not embraces, and are more ghoul than vampire.

In V5, being a thin blood is an absolute disaster because you don't get powers outside of BS potion making but you can still only subside on blood. Thin bloods can't make ghouls in any edition.

Even the thin bloods who have sunlight resistance take agrivated damage when exposed to direct sunlight, they can only go out on cloudy days. Also thinblood offspring are weaker than Revenants, unless V5 makes Dhamphirs stronger. I always wonderer what happened when a thinblood impregnated another thinblood? Would the resulting Dhamphirs be stronger than Dhamphirs with one dusk parent and one human parent?

[MyWifeIsScary]

Pre V5 at least, 14th isn't nearly as bad as 1/10 (but is at most half successful) and 15th is... still not as bad as 1/10th successsful. 16th gens are births, not embraces, and are more ghoul than vampire.

In V5, being a thin blood is an absolute disaster because you don't get powers outside of BS potion making but you can still only subside on blood. Thin bloods can't make ghouls in any edition.

[Morbus]

* The Ash cult of BLOOD CULTS indicates that young tech billionaires are finding Thin Bloods a much more agreeable form of undeath. Which could really change the power balance.

Sounds really stupid. Aren't Thin Bloods supposed to be a 1/10 successful embrace? Especially for Daywalkers who are supposed to be 15th and 16th generations so embraced by another Thin Blood: ergo statistically suicide.


Plus I can't see any upside for being Thin Blooded compared to being a Ghoul. You are just as fragile with all the bagage of being one of the damned. (like having a beast)

Seems smarter to actually farm Thin Bloods since most of them can't blood bond. Yes it only works daily but it's a nice and safe supplement while hunting for better blood.

[Morbus]

* The Ash cult of BLOOD CULTS indicates that young tech billionaires are finding Thin Bloods a much more agreeable form of undeath. Which could really change the power balance.

Sounds really stupid. Aren't Thin Bloods supposed to be a 1/10 successful embrace? Especially for Daywalkers who are supposed to be 15th and 16th generations so embraced by another Thin Blood: ergo statistically suicide.


Plus I can't see any upside for being Thin Blooded compared to being a Ghoul. You are just as fragile with all the bagage of being one of the damned. (like having a beast)

Seems smarter to actually farm Thin Bloods since most of them can't blood bond. Yes it only works daily but it's a nice and safe supplement while hunting for better blood.

[CTPhipps]

Blackmailing a vampire is stupid and not many are likely to try it.

It's notably the plot of POWER PREY and the Chronicle is pretty clear, "Yes, Redwood can cause a lot of damage and maybe even cause a few vampires to be destroyed but this will end badly for him in the end." There's even a Jigsaw-esque "Murder Castle" at the end of the game he tries to lure the vampires too with Hunters and it basically says that the PCs can just bypass it with their powers or thinking outside the box if they take a moment to do so.

(one resolution is to just use Obfuscate to sneak in and murder the guy before trashing his computer)

[MyWifeIsScary]

Blackmailing a vampire is stupid and not many are likely to try it. The vampire is just too unknown. You generally won't know what powers they have or even if the curse can be transmited, or if there's a difference between ghouling and being a full vampire (and a vampire may just convince you ghouls are just young vampires)
The moment you get to the negotiating table you'll be dominated, or your friends will be dominated, or someone will follow them obfuscated or... their families become hostages.
Even if you did get embraced (The vampire doesn't just drain you and leave you) you'll end up getting destroyed by a vampire society or, at the very least, get tricked into a full blood bond and used as fodder by a vampire that admires your guys.

[CTPhipps]

I believe vampiric weaknesses are too crippling for this to become a likely scenario.

I mean sure they will certainly be those who would try and they would not be insignificant, but not only I believe those that would try to torch them are more numerous, but they have a serious advantage with the "I can't do anything for the whole day and sunrays kill me in seconds" aspect.

This is why vampires hide from human afterall. Not all of them are gifted with godly powers or generous DM's. Most are quite weak if attacked during the day. Secrecy is key to their survival. And wannabees are certainly going to be the first hunted and the weakest of the bunch especially if they are "rich" and "famous".

Ghouldom tough? If the Blood bond can be circumvented? That's an another story entirely.

The gamelines have done a little with this already too.

* There's a club in Washington D.C. where billionaires extend their lives with vampire blood as ghouls. They hunt smaller undead and basically have no difficulty draining them and eliminating them because of their resources.

* The Ash cult of BLOOD CULTS indicates that young tech billionaires are finding Thin Bloods a much more agreeable form of undeath. Which could really change the power balance.

[Morbus]

Honestly the bigger surprise is that more in power aren't trying to blackmail vampires into making them immortal. The incredible temptation of immortality is something that doesn't come up nearly as much as it should in these games about humans discovering vampires. If vampires were discovered to be real tomorrow, the public wouldn't be scrambling to slaughter them, they'd be scrambling to steal their immortality. The headlines would be all about people demanding that the sick and old get first dibs, and plans for dealing with vampiric weaknesses and needs. The rich would immediately start circumventing efforts to prioritize the sick/old and make themselves the priority.

I believe vampiric weaknesses are too crippling for this to become a likely scenario.

I mean sure they will certainly be those who would try and they would not be insignificant, but not only I believe those that would try to torch them are more numerous, but they have a serious advantage with the "I can't do anything for the whole day and sunrays kill me in seconds" aspect.

This is why vampires hide from human afterall. Not all of them are gifted with godly powers or generous DM's. Most are quite weak if attacked during the day. Secrecy is key to their survival. And wannabees are certainly going to be the first hunted and the weakest of the bunch especially if they are "rich" and "famous".

Ghouldom tough? If the Blood bond can be circumvented? That's an another story entirely.

[babi_gog]

Well the fall of London also possible has the interesting bit in it from the history of the MI5, and especially Division Six, taken from Hunter First Contact

the head of Division Six the division that deals with the supernatural was being blackmailed by some vampires and thus working for them. This would lead nicely into the Mithras house cleaning of the events later in London I think.

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

In terms of politics coming out of London, normal mortals can be venal, petty, corrupt, greedy, and mediocre all on their own.

[CTPhipps]

The Tories have been in power for 10 years. At least half of them are Vampires in real life.
If you've been paying even a slight bit of attention to British politics, it'd be very strange to hear that in the WoD, they've been purged of vampires, when in reality things have just being going from bad to worse. You'd think a good vampire cleansing would brighten things up, no? Lessen that corruption? Like, last I checked, the minister in charge of dealing with covid was handing contracts out to her friends, and the minister for anti-corruption hasn't said anything about it because... they're married. Oh, and that Grenfell* investigation has quietly faded into the background without finding anyone accountable in four years, and.... To say the vampires were purged... It's a good deal too much cognitive dissonance for me.

*I think most would find it in poor taste to attach this tragedy to the Second inquisition.

The Fall of London has a very "you" theory on it and basically is exactly what you came up with independently for the Fall of Vienna. The whole massacre of the vampires of London is nothing more than the will of Mithras and his cult to purge one of the largest most important cities in the world of undead that aren't loyal to their master. Once Mithras has reached full power as a 4th generation vampire, he'll sweep back into the city and make it the stronghold for his new sect.

Whatever that will be.

[MyWifeIsScary]

In THE FALL OF LONDON, the book never outright says it but I believe is strongly implying that the sudden windfall of government support and lack of skepticism from the British government's bureaucrats as well as financiers is due to so many of them being secretly part of Mithras' (mortal) cult.

The Tories have been in power for 10 years. At least half of them are Vampires in real life.
If you've been paying even a slight bit of attention to British politics, it'd be very strange to hear that in the WoD, they've been purged of vampires, when in reality things have just being going from bad to worse. You'd think a good vampire cleansing would brighten things up, no? Lessen that corruption? Like, last I checked, the minister in charge of dealing with covid was handing contracts out to her friends, and the minister for anti-corruption hasn't said anything about it because... they're married. Oh, and that Grenfell* investigation has quietly faded into the background without finding anyone accountable in four years, and.... To say the vampires were purged... It's a good deal too much cognitive dissonance for me.

*I think most would find it in poor taste to attach this tragedy to the Second inquisition.