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Vampire space Hypothetical

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  • Vampire space Hypothetical

    Okay, let's say I have a kindred who for whatever reason is atop a space station, they have flesh of marble and earthshake. This kindred jumps of the station and enters freefall, using flesh of marble to resist the afterburn, they land on some sabbat imcampmant in....oh I don't know.......medina, and uses earthshake to maximise the damage of impact. What happens?

  • #2
    One of two things, and neither very helpful. Just like my name; nothing, or whatever you want. The situation is so far removed from the concerns of the game.

    Cheers!


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    • #3
      Like the other poster said, this is a long ways from the story of most games or anything game mechanics is designed to handle. Assuming the character did not burn up - and entry at those velocities destroys nickel-iron asteroids so it should make short work of a vampire - then the force of the impact will not be that impressive.

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      • #4
        The heat of re-entry exceeds the temperature of lava. I would rule the vampire is incinerated before he could even reach the ground regardless of the Disciplines used. (That's assuming the vampire could still somehow avoid the light of the sun or that the high energy particles of space doesn't damage the vampire's body anyway). At least in the edition I looked in, Flesh of Marble does not apply to fire damage. And if it did mention it applied to fire, I would still rule that the description did not take into effect the massive difference between "normal" fire and something like molten lava or re-entry from space.

        The rules of Vampire are really meant to help players emulate a specific kind of genre. The further away you walk from that genre, it begins to break down. Vampires jumping from space stations in order to wipe out someone like a meteor strike is pretty far from what the game is trying to accomplish. At that point, it's just better to start playing some kind of superhero game. There's no problem if the Hulk, Super-Skrull, Superman, or Doomsday does that - it's part of that genre.

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        • #5
          I believe Fortitude/Potence would reduce the effects of re-entry; not just resisting the burn but being less capable of burning That said, yeah, you're not going to do more than a piece of artillery could. A vampire simply doesn't have enough mass. Also terminal velocity is terminal velocity; you don't need to go so high up to get max speed.


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          • #6
            Flesh of marble wouldn't help you, in order to surviving in outer space, you need Adaptation Protean power(which has 6 and 9 dot version)

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            • #7
              Off hand I would say that while a vampire with sufficiently high Fortitude could survive jumping out of an airplane without a parachute, the heat of atmospheric reentry would kill any vampire who lacked some plot-level contrivance (like a 10 dot discipline or a unique, one of a kind, super-magical artifact).

              *EDIT* I get that that's kind of a boring answer. So for the fun answer I'll say that all but one of the Sabbat die. The one survivor manages to flee and rumors quickly begin spreading of the "Shooting Death Star."
              Last edited by AnubisXy; 02-25-2021, 05:04 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
                Like the other poster said, this is a long ways from the story of most games or anything game mechanics is designed to handle...
                Indeed. I always liked to play with the notion (younger and scientifically-inclined) Lasombra in modern nights games become obsessed with space the way their forebears did the sea, especially after a past game in which I played an ancilla Lasombra antitribu who was deeply involved behind the scenes with NASA and the space race...which gave me the idea for a far future (as in 28th Century) science fiction one-shot.

                It's neither here nor there, but the one-shot involved a vampire-inhabited space station at the Sun-Earth L2 point, building a Dyson swarm around the Sun and an attempt by [Lasombra] to re-enter the material world from the Abyss via kugelblitz.

                I quickly got stuck in the weeds figuring out how my players (and I) would try to push this idea to the absolute breaking point, and doing shit like calculating delta-v changes as a factor of Strength + Potence based on the feats of strength chart. It got crazier from there, and I quickly realized the game system would require a complete overhaul to do any kind of sci-fi shit, let alone some far future shit as grounded in science as possible. You think "do vampires stay awake for six months and sleep for six months in the arctic?" is a flamebait quest, wait until you consider whether vampires would just never, ever sleep if they inhabit a space station in a Sun-body L2 point or whether vampires on Mars would take aggravated from sunlight (I ruled it'd be lethal for non-Setites, Setites would take the regular amount of aggravated).
                Last edited by Theodrim; 02-25-2021, 11:21 AM.

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                • #9
                  This wouldn’t work for a variety of reasons. One is that a space station isn’t flying, it’s in orbit. If you jump off of it you don’t go into a free fall, you are just in a slightly different orbit. In order to free fall as we might imagine, the vampire would have to have an ability to significantly decelerate himself out of the space stations orbit and if he had the power to do that, he wouldn’t need to jump out of the space station to go fast.

                  So let us even assume that the vampire magically free falls after leaving the space station, which is a major departure from what can realistically happen anyway, but we’re talking about vampires on space stations so I’ll just go with it. Depending on how high up the space station is, the vampire could be going very fast when it starts to encounter significant atmosphere. Fast enough to superheat? I don’t know, but keep in mind that the atmosphere is thin that high up and a vampire isn’t a huge piece of metal. Let’s assume that the vampire doesn’t burn up, is so tough it’s immune to the heat and turbulence of reentry. Well, after falling miles and miles through the atmosphere, the vampire of human size and weight slow down to human terminal velocity, which can vary based on the person and how they’re falling, roughly between 100-300 mph. Slower than if our vampire just dive bombed a small plane into the target, which would be way easier to acquire (than a space station) and wouldn’t require magically decelerating from the space station. Plus all of the other dangers involved in falling from the space station like burning up or sunlight.

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                  • #10
                    Short answer: Up to storyteller and game to decide and how it happens.

                    Long answer: Only if you're an old, powerful Methuselah at a minimum. Possibly not even then. Might need to be Antediluvian (where it takes enchanted neutron bombs to inflict any real hurt) for that. Reentry is like 7.8 km/s at least so you can expect a kindred to amass 30-70 megajoules per kilogram of their own body. Which will be lost in re-entry as the atmosphere slows (and burns) them. And as others noted its not going to be a straight drop at those speeds (it could be if you move faster, but that just compounds the problem of the energies involved.)

                    And Vampire Storyteller Companion makes it clear most vampires are gonna be outclassed by military hardware:

                    The modern battlefield is deadlier than can be described to anyone who hasn’t been on one, and Kindred, for all their power, are no match for correctly used modern military technology. No reasonable amount of Potence allows a character to slug it out with a tank that mounts a 120mm main gun firing 100-pound armor-piercing sabot rounds. No realistic amount of Celerity makes a character fast enough to outrun an artillery barrage that saturates every inch of ground in a one-mile radius with shrapnel. No obtainable amount of Fortitude gives a character enough extra soak dice to survive the detonation of a 2000-pound laser-guided bomb. The Kindred are mighty personally, but on the modern battlefield, one character’s personal might matters very little in the face of combined arms. As for Kindred of great age and potency, none has reportedly ever dealt with weapons matching their own sheer deadliness.
                    Again a really old vampire (high end elder or Methuselah) might be able to match up to conventional weapons and modern military - but then again maybe not. That was the 90s/early 2000s and stuff like MOAB was only just coming on line towards the end of that, nevermind what came after.

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                    • #11
                      There is a level 7 Protean power called spectral form, where the Gangrel can turn into a ghost and pass through solid material. I never thought of using it for this, but I imagine that if it allows you to pass through walls, you could pass through air without air resistance.

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                      • #12
                        Once you're warping the laws of physics that much, though, no telling the effect it would have on gravitational acceleration or inertia.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post
                          Once you're warping the laws of physics that much, though, no telling the effect it would have on gravitational acceleration or inertia.
                          Yeah, it doesn’t solve the orbit/fall problem either, though as per V20, Spectra Body allows the vampire to be selectively affected by gravity.

                          At this point, it might just be simpler to get a high level Protean power that allows it to turn into a bomb.

                          Wait, maybe Spectral Body might allow the vampire to get out of orbit. The rules say that the vampire is allowed to float, but can’t go any faster than walking speed. So the vampire jumps away from the International Space Station and is then flying through the near vacuum at almost 5 miles per second. The vampire activates Spectra Body and begins floating, speed is immediately reduced to walking speed, the maximum speed of floating with Spectral Body active. The vampire allows itself to be subject to gravity, which initiates the free fall, and because Spectral Body is active, the vampire is neither slowed down nor heated up by air resistance. The vampire falls over 250 miles, accelerating at g for nearly the entire time. The vampire can deactivate Spectral Body at will and does so right before it hits the target.
                          Last edited by Sergeant Brother; 03-01-2021, 11:50 PM.

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