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V20 Backgrounds breaking down over play time

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  • #16
    My current V20 house rules have Generation as a Merit. It's 1-3 points for 12th-10th Generation. 5 points for 9th and 7 points for 8th.

    At 9th, you halve all BP gained from animals (round up) and increase penalties on Clan Weaknesses, Compulsions and Beast Flaws (the latter two replace Derangements) by -1 dice. At 8th Gen, you halve all BP gained from animals (round down) and increase all the above penalties by -2 dice.

    Later on, Generation impacts your chance of Methuselah's Thirst and the steps on the way to it. Humanity is a factor in this too.

    Instead of lower Generations being immune to Dominate, they now get a bonus equal to the difference in their Generation.

    Finally, there's a non-purchasable Merit that scales with age/experience. Each dot increases your blood pool by +1 and at four and five dots, your BP/turn limit increases by one and then two, respectively.

    I'm not sure whether Generation should stay as a Merit or become something the ST decides for everyone, but I'm going to test it out in play and see.

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    • #17
      I did wonder whether you could just make BP/turn, for Discipline use only, equal to your Stamina (if this would be higher than your Generational maximum). It means Stamina is more important and it makes Generation less important as a result.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
        I did wonder whether you could just make BP/turn, for Discipline use only, equal to your Stamina (if this would be higher than your Generational maximum). It means Stamina is more important and it makes Generation less important as a result.
        It is a possible route to take, but it does have the result of restricting the build types. To put it into video game terms you will eliminate the glass cannon build or caster build to give this ability solely to tank characters.

        Blood Points are easy to see as a physical attribute, but with V20 and earlier versions a Blood Point is a measure of energy, not mass or volume of liquid. Hence why an Elder can store 50 BP in their bodies, but only have about 10 pints of blood physically there. Classically in V:tM mechanics, controlling energy inside or out is function of the mind rather than the body. Thus Willpower would be the technical stat to determine how many BP per turn you can burn.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
          My current V20 house rules have Generation as a Merit. It's 1-3 points for 12th-10th Generation. 5 points for 9th and 7 points for 8th.
          That's a pretty good idea


          At 9th, you halve all BP gained from animals (round up) and increase penalties on Clan Weaknesses, Compulsions and Beast Flaws (the latter two replace Derangements) by -1 dice. At 8th Gen, you halve all BP gained from animals (round down) and increase all the above penalties by -2 dice.
          .
          The problem with such weaknesses is that the Nosferatu only give the idea that they're worth a diablerie when they get uglier, and they're very likely to have high-level obfuscate or drag-race- level makeup skills. while the Brujah enter eternal frenzy...


          Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
          There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
            That's a pretty good idea



            The problem with such weaknesses is that the Nosferatu only give the idea that they're worth a diablerie when they get uglier, and they're very likely to have high-level obfuscate or drag-race- level makeup skills. while the Brujah enter eternal frenzy...
            I've changed the Nosferatu Weakness, too, so that it's a scaling penalty to social rolls (starting at -2 but increasing to -4 dice at 8th Generation). I may change the numbers at some point, but we're just testing these changes now. My other thought was just to make the Bane severity equal to your BP/turn from 8th-13th Generation (which is nice and simple).

            I also give Nossies the Merit Hideous from Exalted for free, so they can use Appearance as an intimidation stat, but their Appearance directly deducts from seduction attempts--unless, you know, you're into that sort of thing. Most Nossies in the game (one PC and a few NPCs) actually have high Appearance now, which I like.

            For the Weaknesses, most Clans basically have the equivalent of a -2 dice pool penalty in one area now, with Thin Bloods taking half that penalty and 8th Gens taking twice that. This is heavy homebrew territory at this stage.

            I've not fixed the Brujah yet, as they have never been played at our table. But I think I might just give them an extra Beast Flaw at chargen.

            Beast Flaws are inspired by the original MET Beast Traits, with the more supernatural Derangements mixed in. They basically give everyone an extra trigger for either Frenzy or Rötschreck (e.g., if you fail an opposed Social test, you treat it as outright humiliation even if it was quite trivial) or inflict a monstrous/bestial behaviour on you every time your Willpower is low or certain triggers are met.

            I've also replaced shifting target numbers with a fixed TN and use the CoD method of only adding or subtracting dice for difficulty. But when it comes to Virtue rolls, you may roll a relevant Intimacy if it's higher (so a Brujah has slightly more chance to avoid Frenzy if it would jeopardise something he cares about a lot).

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            • #21
              I also feel flat, static banes encourage eating your elders, while worsening banes not only discourage diablerie but actually encourage sympathy for elders.

              I also question the metaphysical aspect of getting stronger banes, because if you, a toreador, devours a Nosferatu, you arent getting closer to Toreador.


              Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
              There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                I also feel flat, static banes encourage eating your elders, while worsening banes not only discourage diablerie but actually encourage sympathy for elders.
                I also question the metaphysical aspect of getting stronger banes, because if you, a toreador, devours a Nosferatu, you arent getting closer to Toreador.
                I think the trick with Banes is to keep them from getting too overwhelming.

                The temptation, as seen above, is to have the Bane increase with every generation, while I've found an increase of +1 for every 2-3 generations and dropping the severity for generations 12-13 is plenty (i.e. 13-12th is -1, 11-9 is default, 8-6 is +1, 5-4 is +2). This means your starting 8th Gen could get as high as 6th Gen before suffering a bane increase and even at 4th Gen its only slightly worse than an 8th Gen in Bane severity, but by contrast have twice the blood pool, can spend it three times quicker and can raise all your traits to 9.

                As to the Bane increasing regardless of what you diablerize, that depends on how you see the nature of the Bane curse... is it a curse on specific allotments of blood ("all with the blood of X in their veins") or is it a curse levied on you because of the Clan you were sired into ("all the descendants of Malkav") with it being more potent only because your blood in general is more potent, not because of where the blood came from.

                The former suggests that the Clans are natural mutations from a common ancestor so when you diablerize a Malkavian you take on a bit of their genetic madness. The latter suggests a supernatural curse levied on specific bloodlines that is independent of blood factors (basically lining up with the Clan curses coming from Caine as punishment as described in the Book of Nod and that the curse doesn't care who you eat, it cares what line you were embraced into).

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                • #23
                  I don't mind the scaling Banes, but your way of doing it might work with a tweak (e.g., -2 for 14-16th, -1 for 12-13th, standard for 10-11th, +1 for 8-9th, +2 for 7-6th, etc). My main reasoning is that 8th and 9th Generation are where you jump from extra blood pool only to extra blood pool and extra BP/turn, which is a bigger deal. If 9th Gen is standard bane severity, there's no reason for everyone not to take 9th Gen.

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