Hello everyone,
I've come here to write this post to discuss an issue that seems to have come up when discussing vampires, but especially the Toreador.
I made the claim that love and romance are some of the most important concepts to the Arikelites. I suppose, until recently, this was understood by most of everyone because I don't think I've ever truly come across anyone who may disagree with that until very recently.
A problem that seems to come up in this sort of discussion is that some people come to the conclusion that I am neglecting aesthetics and beauty in general, which is certainly not the case, I must make known. However, it is worth noting that love is perhaps the most common subject of works of art.
If one is familiar with Toreador history and culture, love and romance come up incredibly often, all the way back to Arikel herself. One of her names being Inanna/Ishtar, the Sumerian/Babylonian goddess of love, beauty, sex, and warfare. One might think this would set the mood for the Arikelites, but I digress.
If we are to step forth from antiquity and into the Dark Ages, the Toreador (especially those of France), became heavily enamored with the medieval concept of courtly love and chivalry and formed the Courts of Love.
But let's fast forward all the way to Vampire: The Masquerade, Fifth Edition. If one is to do a cursory search throughout the core rulebook for "romance", it specifically brings up the Toreador in the summary sheet and is as follows: "Toreador: The Degenerates seek thrills of art, romance, and cruelty amidst stagnant undeath." Is this a smoking gun? Perhaps. But not the only one. Touchstones, even, can be lovers (this is not specific to the Toreador). There are any other such examples throughout the corebook about love and romance, and I believe in the Toreador section of either the corebook or the Camarilla sourcebook spoke about having lovers as well (with a mention about how many Toreadors' first lovers are their sires).
One of the counter points that was made to me about the kindred don't feel emotions the way we do. Perhaps this is true, but I don't think so entirely. I can't recall the specific place where it's stated, but all kindred of humanity 7 and higher do feel emotions and attraction as most mortals do, and this does not exclude love and desire.
Another counter point made was that all kindred existence is the acquisition of blood and that everything else is more or less a pretense of true emotion. The Arikelite hopelessly enraptured by a young man's beauty and his personality? He only wanted him for his blood, nothing more. (Why embrace, then? If not for love or admiration, are only the more sordid means the only reason to embrace?)
I would love to provide more examples from the Toreador clan books and clan novels, but alas, it is getting rather late here.
I hope everyone carefully considers what I've written and can contribute to this conversation.
I've come here to write this post to discuss an issue that seems to have come up when discussing vampires, but especially the Toreador.
I made the claim that love and romance are some of the most important concepts to the Arikelites. I suppose, until recently, this was understood by most of everyone because I don't think I've ever truly come across anyone who may disagree with that until very recently.
A problem that seems to come up in this sort of discussion is that some people come to the conclusion that I am neglecting aesthetics and beauty in general, which is certainly not the case, I must make known. However, it is worth noting that love is perhaps the most common subject of works of art.
If one is familiar with Toreador history and culture, love and romance come up incredibly often, all the way back to Arikel herself. One of her names being Inanna/Ishtar, the Sumerian/Babylonian goddess of love, beauty, sex, and warfare. One might think this would set the mood for the Arikelites, but I digress.
If we are to step forth from antiquity and into the Dark Ages, the Toreador (especially those of France), became heavily enamored with the medieval concept of courtly love and chivalry and formed the Courts of Love.
But let's fast forward all the way to Vampire: The Masquerade, Fifth Edition. If one is to do a cursory search throughout the core rulebook for "romance", it specifically brings up the Toreador in the summary sheet and is as follows: "Toreador: The Degenerates seek thrills of art, romance, and cruelty amidst stagnant undeath." Is this a smoking gun? Perhaps. But not the only one. Touchstones, even, can be lovers (this is not specific to the Toreador). There are any other such examples throughout the corebook about love and romance, and I believe in the Toreador section of either the corebook or the Camarilla sourcebook spoke about having lovers as well (with a mention about how many Toreadors' first lovers are their sires).
One of the counter points that was made to me about the kindred don't feel emotions the way we do. Perhaps this is true, but I don't think so entirely. I can't recall the specific place where it's stated, but all kindred of humanity 7 and higher do feel emotions and attraction as most mortals do, and this does not exclude love and desire.
Another counter point made was that all kindred existence is the acquisition of blood and that everything else is more or less a pretense of true emotion. The Arikelite hopelessly enraptured by a young man's beauty and his personality? He only wanted him for his blood, nothing more. (Why embrace, then? If not for love or admiration, are only the more sordid means the only reason to embrace?)
I would love to provide more examples from the Toreador clan books and clan novels, but alas, it is getting rather late here.
I hope everyone carefully considers what I've written and can contribute to this conversation.
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