V:TM Netflix/Amazon Series?

[Marcus Meridian]

Hey guys,

tl:dr - with the abundance of lore and intricate political play and fleshed out, iconic characters: Why is there no Netflix/Amazon series about Vampire the Masquerade? The last thing i remember was that Aaron Spelling series in the mid nineties.

Is there a licensing issue?

[adambeyoncelowe]

I'm pretty sure it's something that will have been looked into at some point. Paradox seem keen on earning back their investment through licensing, and TV would be a big part of that.

As always, though, these things are costly and hard to pull off. Kindred: The Embrace didn't exactly set the world on fire and VTM has influenced so many other shows, it's not as original as it would have seemed 30 years ago.

That said, I think it's perfect for the streaming TV giants. And it would certainly help the brand. But Amazon and Netflix have their own demands, and often drop things after 3-4 seasons anyway, so it's not as easy as Paradox dropping them an email and then getting commissioned the week after.

It requires a lot of luck to make a TV show--even one based on a popular mythos.

[Godforsaken]

They should do a show like True Detective. Every season is a self-contained story with different themes, locations, and characters it would be amazing.

[Marcus Meridian]

I'm pretty sure it's something that will have been looked into at some point. Paradox seem keen on earning back their investment through licensing, and TV would be a big part of that.

As always, though, these things are costly and hard to pull off. Kindred: The Embrace didn't exactly set the world on fire and VTM has influenced so many other shows, it's not as original as it would have seemed 30 years ago.

That said, I think it's perfect for the streaming TV giants. And it would certainly help the brand. But Amazon and Netflix have their own demands, and often drop things after 3-4 seasons anyway, so it's not as easy as Paradox dropping them an email and then getting commissioned the week after.

It requires a lot of luck to make a TV show--even one based on a popular mythos.

I agree with you on the challenges of launching a successful TV show. But why do they launch things like Lucifer, which i find really shallow in comparison to all the lore that is part of V:TM? Or Dracula on Netflix, a story, which as much as i like it, has been told and retold so many times?

Maybe we could also ask: Why is there no DnD series? Maybe producers see those brands as too specific and fear only a relatively small audience will show interest in it.

[Thoth]

For my two cents, one of the major problems with adapting a game to screen be it large or small, is that what that games means changes from person to person and player to player.

The long parade of Dungeons & Dragons movies and TV attempts over the decades make it pretty clear that you can't hope to get close to a good product without a core storyline that everyone loves. Imagine Game of Thrones with soap opera level writing would be a high level of success, and thus far no one has even gotten close to that good.

Thinking back to vampire TV series like Vampire Diaries and Forever Knight. You can't even agree on what a vampire should or should not be as far as tone or substance. Kindred the Embrace as previously mentioned was little more than 90210 with fangs. Their interpretation changed things to such a degree that ghouls and blood bonding didn't exist, Assamites only work for Prince grade or higher, vampires can day walk as long as they recently fed, the brujah were all mobsters, the gangrel acted like brujah, the nosferatu had Protean and Thaumaturgy, the list of adjustments keep going..... Needless to say there are many pitfalls to over come when it comes to any IP and V:tM has many inherent issues.

Because V:tM can have any kind of tone, that means that which ever tone they pick for the show ends up excluding the fans who favor the other tones. Focus on the interpersonal drama and you get Vampire Diaries. Focus on the moral and societal decay and you get True Detective season one, focus on combat and you get the Blade tv series house of C'thon.

In other words if tolkien had this sort of adaptation problem the hobbits could be interpreted as anything from their current selves to being middle earths version of Pablo Escobar opening up the middle earth markets for "old toby" pipe weed to dominate the party scene. Then add in a writer who wants to use the hobbits as political statement for some hippie commune for a back to the earth working the farm vibe, after which some marketing directive will come down that the plot needs to be more inclusive and that Focus Groups of people who have never read the books want to see more inclusivity and representation because that is always the take away from such groups.

Perhaps I am being old and cynical, but then again if you believe the leaks regarding the development of Vampire Bloodlines 2, such issues seem to be inherent.

It seems to turn into a garbage fire that is utterly divorced from the source material so reliably and so fast, you could probably set your watch to it.

[adambeyoncelowe]

I think the lack of a singular narrative probably is a problem. Like, you could maybe pitch a series based on the signature characters, or pick the Revised Clan Novels as a basis. But LotR has a very clear story from which you can hang the other bits, and the setting allows you to add depth and breadth to that story without losing the forward momentum.

The WoD is so broad and deep, and without a single narrative, that it makes it harder to find focus, I guess.

I quite liked Kindred: The Embraced, but they did take too many liberties for purists and the setting actually worked against them, as they had to simplify everything to get the main points across.

Lucifer, if you think about it, is easy to watch, funny and has relatively light worldbuilding. They only add in a few small bits to the world each season, and it's never very complicated.

Vampire, meanwhile, has three Sects, 13-16 Generations (depending on the era), 13 Clans and dozens of Bloodlines, a history dating back to the dawn of time, and loads of tangential things that hardly ever come up but interact with the setting in weird and wonderful ways.

[archderd]

i don't really see why they would given that LA by night already does most things a TV show would do for the game.

so the question isn't "would the benefits of a TV show be worth the cost?" but rather "would the benefits of a tv show that LA by night doesn't already fulfill be worth the cost?" . and i think the obvious answer to that is no

[Godforsaken]

But there are some things about Vampire that are somewhat constant, like historical events. Maybe a show can be about one of those defining events in kindred history? it should include everything and it will be somewhat lore-friendly..

[MyWifeIsScary]

We dont have confidence in future vampire products, given what we have of late. a show needs money, and investors need to feel confident they will make returns. Between V5, Earthblood and Bloodlines 2, nothing is looking like a particularly strong showing for the IP of late. A lot of controversies, poor reviews and a development hell do not scream "make me into a TV show".

[Chris24601]

Why license when a writer can just start from standard vampire lore and do their own thing?

Other than clan names that 99% of the general population has never heard of and so will mean nothing to them and the Caine origin myth; there’s nothing unique enough to VtM to make obtaining the license worth the effort.

Basically, unless you want to do something with Caine and the Antediluvians (in which case your budget needs to be way bigger than most tv shows) there is zero reason not create to your own setting and focus in on just the lore elements you need to tell your particular story.

You don’t need Generation to get a vampire elite vs. rabble story, you don’t need the Cam and Sabbat for a sectarian conflict. There’s no discipline in the books that couldn’t belong to any other vampire.

Basically, outside of the rpg-field there is very little IP value here.

[CTPhipps]

They should do a show like True Detective. Every season is a self-contained story with different themes, locations, and characters it would be amazing.

I actually would do the opposite. Set it in one city and slowly flesh out all of the characters in the city and their interactions.

The long parade of Dungeons & Dragons movies and TV attempts over the decades make it pretty clear that you can't hope to get close to a good product without a core storyline that everyone loves. Imagine Game of Thrones with soap opera level writing would be a high level of success, and thus far no one has even gotten close to that good.

It seems to turn into a garbage fire that is utterly divorced from the source material so reliably and so fast, you could probably set your watch to it.

Have you tried the V:TM comic?

[Thoth]

Have you tried the V:TM comic?

To be honest I am not much of a comics person. Most comics out there are put together to keep readers reading, rather than to tell a specific story which has an ending. This gets even worse when the cross overs start happening, which starts everyone having the Tommy Westphall discussion. An example of one of the comic lines I enjoyed was Punisher: Armory, which was a deep dive on the weapons, tools, vehicles, and other equipment used by the character.

Also considering how badly WW handled the Exalted comic.... yeah, I wasn't in a hurry to look at their other offerings.

[MyWifeIsScary]

Sometimes, I fantasize about a WoD TV show
It's the early 90s, A man investigates some freaky shit, there's corruption, black comedy gold, and dark satire everywhere, and they don't even confirm there's supernaturals till at least halfway through the first season. Then it comes together and oh-fuck it was vampires and then later on we realise oh-fuck it was humans all along (Or is it?). The initial lead character becomes a malkavian so you're not sure how reliable he is. Oh, and a season would end with a kid first-changing in a classroom. First season you introduce vampires, second or third you introduce werewolves, then you introduce mages somewhere, and then changelings if you ever make it so far (Via some barely-pubescent kids doing some The Warriors-type shit)

I feel the world could really use a dark satire right now.
Another problem is, well, V5. A lot of people hate the metaplot, and it presents disciplines as something very game-based, rather than something that could exist in any medium. Going back to the 90's would be expensive, and a lot of the V5 metaplot is just... so contrarian to the OG story that a lot of it seems to be intended to work with context and... it's a quite a bit harder to get into for the initiate. The SI just doesn't resonate as good satirical content, and v5's liberal-vs-conservative angle is just something people are sick of while also lacking the nuance required to do this kind of stuff well without alienating audiences and... it's just horrible to adapt. Maybe it'd work as a season 8, but it's a bad idea to start there, because the audience shouldn't be around vampires dealing with new developments lamenting how it used to be... The audience needs limited information. You could just elect to not explain the Banu Haquim or the Lasombra in the Camarilla and completely ignore their baggage, but why would you want to?

I suppose the 90's is in fashion for nostalgia purposes. That's at least good. but still, pricey; more money needed is reduced chance of getting off the ground.

[CTPhipps]

Another problem is, well, V5. A lot of people hate the metaplot, and it presents disciplines as something very game-based, rather than something that could exist in any medium.

Hard disagree. V5 is definitely the most cinematic and watchable plot. The visual novels are fantastic.

[Thoth]

Vampire, meanwhile, has three Sects, 13-16 Generations (depending on the era), 13 Clans and dozens of Bloodlines, a history dating back to the dawn of time, and loads of tangential things that hardly ever come up but interact with the setting in weird and wonderful ways.

Then we think back to the Highlander tv series where we had only one type of immortal, the same set of rules for all, and only a few instances of magical items or extra powers. If people can't connect to that much of a simplified immortal story, yeah WoD is more or less unusable.

Also the Supernatural tv series more or less cornered the Hunter storyline spot.