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Clan changes in the Camarilla: Near objectively terrible ideas.

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  • monteparnas
    replied
    I disagree with some of those because of other aspect of the Cam that I think they should have expanded instead: it is supposedly the All Vamps Society.

    They're a secular organization that promotes the idea that all and every vampire live under their rules, like it or not. Even the position of Justicar can be extended to more clans without a big schism (although certainly not without a lot of politicking, conflict and some violence), and seriously, on most cases the Primigen of a city is far more important in this regard than the Justicars.

    After taking so many rules from Requiem already, what's the problem with making the sects more open and varied from place to place? Any prospect member would still have to play by the rules, and savvy politicians will anticipate and profit from conflicts more than not.

    So I'm not against the newcomers. I'm for more mixing of clans among sects and even Independence. There's no reason for the Giovanni to not have some members as direct participants in the Camarilla, or the Setites.

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  • Shakanaka
    replied
    Originally posted by Sergeant Brother
    I like the idea of Lasombra in the Camarilla, though they shouldn’t be in there as second class citizens. The Lasombra should be in the Camarilla with a position of power, not weakness. That undermines what makes the Clan cool.
    Lasombra being in the Camarilla, aside from their minority antitribu, makes little to no sense at all. The Lasombra staked their entire honor, prestige, weight, and institutional strength behind the Sabbat and were essentially the defacto rulers of the Sect, with the Tzimisce following as a close second in the Sabbat like how Tremere are a close second to the Venture in the Camarilla.

    The Lasombra as whole defecting in a mass drive to join the Camarilla.. is just one of the most stupid decisions in VTM to date right about now. They're guaranteed to become "second class citizens" because they've conceded so much face and ground to the Venture. This move also is just a grander decision to pull the rug out of the Sabbat from the game in general as well.

    EDIT: Also I disagree with the notion of the decision to put the Lasombra in the Camarilla was one about their supposed "conservative leanings". Its entirely about a general dislike of anything that has to do with the Sabbat.
    Last edited by Shakanaka; 09-04-2021, 02:31 PM.

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  • MyWifeIsScary
    replied
    The Lasombra antitribu in the Camarilla worked well, all they needed was a little expansion. What V5 did to them was spiteful, and the foolish defectors undermine the Lasombra already in the Cam.

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  • Sergeant Brother
    replied
    So I largely agree here. It makes no sense to me at all for the Gangrel to leave the Camarilla. For the Gangrel, the Camarilla really doesn’t have many downsides. If they want the advantages of independence, just go into the woods or a small town and the Camarilla might as well not exist. Need institutional support for some reason, go into the city and you’re a Camarilla member with all associated benefits. There is no reason not to be in the Camarilla unless they had a strong unified agenda against the Camarilla and that doesn’t make any sense for such an individualistic Clan. I could see a case to be made for the Gangrel never joining as a Clan in the first place, but if they join they will never leave. A Justicar or inner circle member may step down, but there will surely be elder Gangrel who would want to step up.

    I also agree with the Assamites. Honestly, I have long (since it was first suggested back in revised edition) thought that the Assamites were the last Clan that would be allowed to join the Camarilla. I could more easily see the Baali, Settites, or Tzimisce as full fledged Camarilla members. Giovanni or Cappadocians would fit in way better.

    I could potentially see the Brujah leaving the Camarilla, they make more sense than Gangrel leaving because the Brujah have a more concrete objection to Camarilla leadership, have more of a political and ideological agenda, and are more negatively impacted by certain Camarilla policies. Though as you say, there would still be some Brujah members who want to be in the Camarilla. One of the issues here is that the Anarchs shouldn’t be an independent sect like the Sabbath, they should represent the resistance within the Camarilla as the have since 1st edition.

    I like the idea of Lasombra in the Camarilla, though they shouldn’t be in there as second class citizens. The Lasombra should be in the Camarilla with a position of power, not weakness. That undermines what makes the Clan cool.

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