Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sabbat Book take a peek!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Sabbat Book take a peek!

    Permission has been given to an influencer to take a peek at the pages of the Sabbat book. Looking at it in detail, we can flush down the theory of some that the book was being marketed as a book for antagonists simply to circumvent censorship and backfire. Below is a print, the full video is at the end of the post:





    "IN STORIES

    The most obvious call to action for a Blood Feast is to somehow
    stop it, and if that's not possible, peharps even to recover some number
    of the victims.
    A Blood Feast is a true test of morality, for even
    if the player's coterie isn't' a bunch of do-gooders,
    chronicle Tenets, personal Convictions and the self-preservation
    function of the Masquerade may urge characters to prevent
    innocents from meeting gruesome ends.
    Some victims might even be procured ofr nights before the Ritae's culmination,
    and those close to them might notice that they've gone missing - often to little
    avail. "


    The print information is in line with the marketing done by the developers: this is a book for antagonists. The Ritae in this book, for example, just describes what the PCs might react to when they receive news that the ritual has happened or is about to happen (and how they are likely to try to prevent such cruelty from happening).

    The full video is available here:


  • #2
    Path of the sun: "there's a thin blood path now, awesome"

    Sounds like false enthusiasm. Almost sarcasm. Can't they pay him more to shill harder?


    Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
    There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

    Comment


    • #3
      The art looks a lot better than anarch or corebook even if they're still going for that faux realistic style, I approve of the lack of photoshoots-especially for the alien nightmarish sabbat. The layout looks a lot better too. Hopefully they'll be enough to reverse engineer a player game to justify the price.

      Incidently it's still a horrible horrible mistake to not have them playable with a $45 price tag but babysteps forward here.
      Last edited by Ragged Robin; 09-21-2021, 07:49 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        To be honest, even as someone who first dabbled into the WoD/CoD on a play by forum with a Sabbat City Gangrel, I can understand why OPP may have grown worried/squeamish with the Sabbat as a playable faction.

        It does take away from the personal horror side of the game after all. And I never really liked the sort of "devil's rejet" vibe that all the antitribu had for me, making them severely lacking in term of Clan representation, traditions and the like...

        But the Anarchs aren't exactly hyper attractive against the Camarilla. OPP would needs to flesh them out, make them distinct and perhaps built them off the Clans comprising them to make them sustainable in the long run. But they don't seem to know what to do with them sadly.

        I'd rather play devil's reject Gangrel than "aimless Gangrel doing something I don't know".

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ur-Than View Post
          It does take away from the personal horror side of the game after all. And I never really liked the sort of "devil's rejet" vibe that all the antitribu had for me, making them severely lacking in term of Clan representation, traditions and the like...
          If you're looking for a good film on how Sabbat work as a horror sect I'd recommend Near dark. It's pitch perfect and does everything devils rejects does way better.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ur-Than View Post
            To be honest, even as someone who first dabbled into the WoD/CoD on a play by forum with a Sabbat City Gangrel, I can understand why OPP may have grown worried/squeamish with the Sabbat as a playable faction.

            It does take away from the personal horror side of the game after all. And I never really liked the sort of "devil's rejet" vibe that all the antitribu had for me, making them severely lacking in term of Clan representation, traditions and the like...

            But the Anarchs aren't exactly hyper attractive against the Camarilla. OPP would needs to flesh them out, make them distinct and perhaps built them off the Clans comprising them to make them sustainable in the long run. But they don't seem to know what to do with them sadly.

            I'd rather play devil's reject Gangrel than "aimless Gangrel doing something I don't know".

            OPP didn't write this (or the Anarch book), it was written in-house by the WoD Brand Team. And Justin Achilli pretty directly laid out the reason for non-playable Sabbat when he was interviewed about it: Humanity and the struggle with it and the Beast is the 'core theme' of Vampire, and especially in 5th Edition, and the Sabbat are the antithesis to that, throwing it away.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by elmerg View Post


              OPP didn't write this (or the Anarch book), it was written in-house by the WoD Brand Team. And Justin Achilli pretty directly laid out the reason for non-playable Sabbat when he was interviewed about it: Humanity and the struggle with it and the Beast is the 'core theme' of Vampire, and especially in 5th Edition, and the Sabbat are the antithesis to that, throwing it away.
              Sure and I agree with him that if V5 aim is a return to personnal horror and the slow erosion of one's Humanity the Sabbat is a problem with its paths allowing them to basically sidestep the whole deal and go full gore with little consequences...

              But the Anarchs are kind of a downgrade nonetheless because they are too messy and ill-defined. What do they want? How is it different from the Cams ? The Sabbat at least as a very clear and distinct vibe which has grown over time.

              There is a reason it usurped the Anarchs position as the second big playable factions, after all.

              Ps : I have no ideas how OPP and the inside team or whatever its named work as entities, separate or otherwise 😅

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by elmerg View Post


                OPP didn't write this (or the Anarch book), it was written in-house by the WoD Brand Team. And Justin Achilli pretty directly laid out the reason for non-playable Sabbat when he was interviewed about it: Humanity and the struggle with it and the Beast is the 'core theme' of Vampire, and especially in 5th Edition, and the Sabbat are the antithesis to that, throwing it away.
                Ah the classic issue which has bugged vtm for decades : the one true way to run it fallacy. Scourge of modern gaming. Imagine if ravenloft was re envisioned to just be spoopy forgotten realms....oh wait nevermind.
                Last edited by Ragged Robin; 09-21-2021, 10:13 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post

                  Ah the classic issue which has bugged vtm for decades : the one true way to run it fallacy. Scourge of modern gaming. Imagine if ravenloft was re envisioned to just be spoopy forgotten realms....oh wait nevermind.
                  Basically it’s the struggle between VtM as a specific IP useful for other media and VtM as a toolkit for vampire-themed campaigns. The one true way is what the managers have determined that promoting will be best for expanding the IP, while the player base wants the same toolkit V20 provided, just with streamlined tools (but which probably wouldn’t do much to expand the IP beyond its current fans).

                  Another way to put it is that devs want you playing the computer equivalent of the latest well-written CRPG while the players who are unhappy with the direction V5 is going wanted it to be more like Minecraft.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm glad this book is coming out but I feel like they should have added player options for the Sabbat, damn the torpedoes.

                    Why?

                    Because I am a guy who owns FREAK LEGION and CLAN BOOK: BAALI. I always felt we needed Infernalist and Nephandi rules beyond the BOOK OF MADNESS too.

                    As big a fan of V5 as I am, I don't think we should shy away from purely evil protagonists.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post

                      Ah the classic issue which has bugged vtm for decades : the one true way to run it fallacy. Scourge of modern gaming. Imagine if ravenloft was re envisioned to just be spoopy forgotten realms....oh wait nevermind.
                      Funnily enough, I think one of the main but underlying problems of V5, the Anarchs being underwhelming and too close to the Camarilla in practice was explained well enough in a Requiem thread by monteparnas : the writers being from the US have a view were political factions are mostly unchanging and yet overlapse a lot. Democrats and Republicans are a lot closer as parties than similar divided political factions elsewhere in the western world.

                      Even if it's less true today, for a very long time, as an outsider, I saw very little difference between the two but there was some form of "tribalism" with people strongly associating to their party even if they represented perhaps only a fraction of it. But the opposition between such forces is largely irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you vote Democrat or Republican if they agree on 75% of their programs basically.

                      That's the Anarchs and Camarilla in a nutshell. The Anarchs don't seem to want to fundamentaly change Vampiric society. They want to tweak it, make it fairer for young Vamps, sure... but they do'nt fundamentaly oppose its tenets and rules. The Sabbat does and that's definitively what attracted me to them back in the day. If I wanted to play the ones saying "Fuck your system, I hate it, and I'll take you down with it..." well, it's Sabbat or bust basically.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post
                        The art looks a lot better than anarch or corebook
                        It would be really hard to be worse. This lesson at least they learned, and that is to say something.

                        Originally posted by Ur-Than View Post
                        It does take away from the personal horror side of the game after all.
                        And as Ragged Robin said, this is a fallacy.

                        No matter what theme you intend for the game, in the end every setting is bound to be used in different ways by the players and working with it instead of against it is a better general design strategy. I do think the Sabbat isn't the best developed idea they had in VtM, but ditching it isn't nearly a solution to anything. What, they think they're my mom to say which theme I have to play? The game is big, and growing again. Keeping to a single theme is putting unnecessary constraints on development and basically shooting yourself.

                        Originally posted by Chris24601 View Post
                        Basically it’s the struggle between VtM as a specific IP useful for other media and VtM as a toolkit for vampire-themed campaigns.
                        There is no such struggle and the players hardly want a Minecraft. WoD has never been the most open ended toolkit to begin with, it is one of the most strictly constrained settings in the market, with the metaplot stating the state of almost everything, their relationships, the options you have and so on. CoD is infinitely more like a toolkit than V20 and I'm still hard pressed to say it is like Minecraft.

                        But they sure are doing this out of a desire of exploring other media. This is all too obvious, esp. with the corebook illustration, it was a strong telltale. It just isn't a struggle and isn't a smart way to do this, either. There is no need for the RPG book to look like the videogame will. There is no need for the RPG book to use the same plots and themes they think the games will use. Their focus is to make games, sure, and I sincerely think it's perfectly fine. But making the RPG like that isn't really going to help.

                        And this isn't just me saying. They are basically doing a dumber variation of WotC strategy with D&D 4th, the difference being that in D&D their focus was to attract MMO players to the RPG instead of taking RPG players to the MMO, and it worked, no matter how much the D&D community complained. But it wasn't a good long term strategy and 4th edition was the shortest lived since the early 80s. 5th edition refocused into making the game more open and well built and actually attracted more developers and players to other media than 4th was capable of.

                        Originally posted by Ur-Than View Post
                        the writers being from the US have a view were political factions are mostly unchanging and yet overlapse a lot. Democrats and Republicans are a lot closer as parties than similar divided political factions elsewhere in the western world.
                        There's a lot of that. Americans are too used to the idea that the actual ideological fight is in the primaries and that everyone belongs to a party. But that arrangement actually only exists in the US. Outside we're very used to see radically distinct parties disputing elections, there's no "everyone is a member of a party" either. So the Cam and Anarchs pretty much started as the Republicans vs Democrats and the Sabbat apparently came to be the Nazis.


                        #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs
                        #AutismPride
                        She/her pronouns

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by monteparnas View Post

                          And as Ragged Robin said, this is a fallacy.

                          No matter what theme you intend for the game, in the end every setting is bound to be used in different ways by the players and working with it instead of against it is a better general design strategy. I do think the Sabbat isn't the best developed idea they had in VtM, but ditching it isn't nearly a solution to anything. What, they think they're my mom to say which theme I have to play? The game is big, and growing again. Keeping to a single theme is putting unnecessary constraints on development and basically shooting yourself.
                          Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I just understand why they'd think the Sabbat would undermine what they consider to be the core of the game. However, let's be honest, there is nothing inherent to the Paths preventing it from still happening. Instead of them being entirely separated from Humanity it should have been possible to tweak them to make them mitigator or something like that without destroying the identity of the Sabbat.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm not surprised by Ritae was written this way; its an antagonist book. They had already lost me with that and saying basically the style of vtm I want to play isn't welcome anymore which made me sad. I did run some number which are amusing.

                            In 1999 when the Guide to the Sabbat was released it was 224 pages for 42.61 (adjusted for inflation, originally went for 25.95), this book is 140 pages for for 45 dollars. Besides the fact I can't really use it for running a Sabbat game besides..ehh make up the rest. The value is simply not the same for me.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It's a mistake to insist that that be the core of the game to begin with. Different people want different things from the game. Insisting that there is only One True Way is a mistake. It's like selling hamburgers and insisting that everyone eats it with pickles. Not everyone likes their hamburgers with friggin pickles. Some people might want you to hold the pickles and add extra mustard. Getting preachy about how every last customer should and must eat the pickles and you're scum if you don't eat the damned pickles is a mistake.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X