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[WIR] Cults of the Blood Gods

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  • #46
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    Frankly, I see no reason to have the magic Reunion.
    I'm guessing the developers wanted a clan as broad as all the others as opposed to an assortment of bloodlines. For people who want a necromancer vampire but don't want to play a generally depraved aristocrat, an elder without a face, a zombie, a flesh-eater or a member of a certain Vodou cult as I recall. Maybe Kiasyd. And some of those were rather small "rare NPC" groups anyway. Hecata are more like Cappadocians with the Giovanni bite (setting further apart mechanically from Nosferatu). I suppose they could have alternatively made the generic Cappadocian community much bigger than previously established.

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    • #47
      Planting the Seed

      Type: Fiction

      Synopsis: A Lilin bartender named Joe talks about his religion.

      Analysis: This one is actually one of the more straightforward pieces of fiction and doesn't actually have much for me to say. A Lilin, male this time, talks about how he's set up his blood cult in Portland, Oregon. He is playing a pretty interesting game by getting the Prince and Primogen's permission to hang out in an area populated by the drugs of Kindred society (Thin Bloods, Anarchs, Caitiff, and so on). This, of course, allows him to build up a power base. Which is, of course, why you want to build a cult in Kindred society anyway.

      There's also the usual, "Pain is a teacher" thing of the Lilin that always makes me think of Loviatar in Forgotten Realms and the idea that whoever writes the Lilin is thinking of sadomasochism half the time. Which, hey, whatever floats your undead boat. The gardening motif is also something I am interested in because I do like the Lhiannan from the Dark Ages and vampire plants. Poison Ivy has been a favorite vampire of my Gotham City by Night game.

      I admit, I'm not really a big fan of Lilith mythology in V:TM and feel like she's become a character far exceeding her actual historical value. This is something that the Lilith section of the book will actually delve into where there's a hilarious bit by a researcher that goes, "Why are we worshiping a misogynist boogeyman of dubious origins?" But then again, if we discarded all pop 90s mythology we'd have no V:TM at all.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
        I think of them as a great concept but badly implemented. I love the idea that vampires who maintain a human tie are less likely to go crazy and kill people. It'd make a great 5pt Merit in previous editions or maybe a Background.
        Oh, I agree on that. The whole problem is the implementation, but the core idea of a vampire keeping contact with humanity through living people was a nice touch. And I do think a better rule for it could even had made sense for "inhumane" vampires, as they still define themselves in relation to humans. But it shouldn't be something for everyone and definitely not the same, unnecessarily punishing rules.

        Originally posted by Jonny View Post
        Well ,when I say "all" I should have said "often" and when I said blood related I was talking about them being literal family. They even call the Hecata a Family of Clans.
        Still the big problem isn't the lore of the Reunion, but its "magical" effect of eliminating mechanics to make every necromancer work as the same clan. As CTPhipps said it just seems like cleaning of content, which wasn't something really necessary to begin with and just eliminated interesting options to people who knew of them.

        Writing in such a way that your intention from Doylist perspective becomes too obvious to the reader isn't a good sign, and seriously, they could have just written the Giovanni there and let the others for supplemental materials, as was always done since ever, and no one would complain.


        #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs
        #AutismPride
        She/her pronouns

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        • #49
          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
          I admit, I'm not really a big fan of Lilith mythology in V:TM and feel like she's become a character far exceeding her actual historical value.
          Most of the cults in… uh… Cults of the Blood Gods are little more than cargo cults. That is they are social structures by people attempting to worship something they do not understand, are not in actual communication with, and which probably does not know about the worshippers. Which means the subjects of worship, assuming they even exist and can be cognizant of the worship, are not obligated to provide anything to worshippers.

          All that to say, the leaders of the cults of Lilith, the Church of Caine, the Nephilim, and so on do not know what the hell they are talking about.

          Exceptions include the Mithras cult and possibly Shalim.

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          • #50
            Regarding the latter, I like the idea of Shalim, the Abyss, Oblivion, etc. being utterly unconcerned with its cult and worshippers (if there's anything there that's truly aware at all), and operating more like a high water table that floods any hole dug deep enough. The cultists just turn themselves into cracks that nothingness can more easily seep through and thus develop powers and rituals unknown to their fellows, but any directives or philosophies are purely their own imaginings.

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            • #51
              I'll get to the Shalim write-up later but I actually thought Chicago by Night was interesting for making them NOT a bunch of wannabe pseudo-Nephandi "bwhahahaha OBLIVION" types but people more like Thomas Ligotti or philosophical nihilism.

              Or to use more RPG relevant terms (Planescape): "I assumed the Cult of Shalim was like the Dustmen and about emptying yourself versus the Doomguard and about destroying everything."

              I feel like Blood Gods kind of undermined that by going, "EVILLLLLL."


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
                Oh, I agree on that. The whole problem is the implementation, but the core idea of a vampire keeping contact with humanity through living people was a nice touch. And I do think a better rule for it could even had made sense for "inhumane" vampires, as they still define themselves in relation to humans. But it shouldn't be something for everyone and definitely not the same, unnecessarily punishing rules.


                Still the big problem isn't the lore of the Reunion, but its "magical" effect of eliminating mechanics to make every necromancer work as the same clan. As CTPhipps said it just seems like cleaning of content, which wasn't something really necessary to begin with and just eliminated interesting options to people who knew of them.

                Writing in such a way that your intention from Doylist perspective becomes too obvious to the reader isn't a good sign, and seriously, they could have just written the Giovanni there and let the others for supplemental materials, as was always done since ever, and no one would complain.
                Well, the book does hint at possible reasons why the banes would have changed, but I understand that some people would have liked keeping all of them different or even just having a choice.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
                  They're not and that's the main reason so many people hate them.

                  Cappadocians and Giovanni are blood related, but have different weaknesses and discipline spreads. Samedi are unknown. Nagaraja have nothing to do with those lines. They all had different spreads and weaknesses. Now the're all mechanically the same. Why? Was there a reason other than butchering the setting with a non-sense simplification to reduce page count?

                  On the sect aspects few people are that angry. It's not a bad development, really, even if not to everyone's taste.
                  Nagaraja are , like, 12 people or so: from a metaplot point of view, it's clear that Harbingers brought them into the Hecata fold because of their past TBH connections.

                  Other parts of the Hecata Clan are blood-related or were implied to be blood related.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Manfr View Post
                    Other parts of the Hecata Clan are blood-related or were implied to be blood related.
                    Not to the point of unifying their mechanics making any sense. It just took out what made them each interesting on their own.


                    #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs
                    #AutismPride
                    She/her pronouns

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
                      Not to the point of unifying their mechanics making any sense. It just took out what made them each interesting on their own.

                      IDK, this may be true for the Samedi, for whom the "rotting corpse" image was central to the self-representation of the Clan, but for the other lineages the unification might work just fine. I agree that the streamlining was a bit brutal, but it basically is a retcon, and it doesn't trouble me excessively, let's say.

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                      • #56
                        The gripes I have with the book are that

                        1) There are a lot of different factions/cults in the book, but the informations for each of them are way too little and often too unreliable/unspecific.

                        2) Oblivion is similarly to Blood Sorcery not well designed imo.

                        3) Some story-bites are written like Tumblr fanfiction.

                        The thing I like most about the book is the idea that the clan has certain main disciplines, but different groups within the clan have developed the ability to have other main disciplines. I think this would be a good addition to the other clans as well.

                        But overall I would rate it higher than every other V5 release.
                        Last edited by Ignithas; 10-13-2021, 03:44 AM.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Ignithas View Post

                          2) Oblivion is similarly to Blood Sorcery not well designed imo.

                          I'd recommend re separating the shadow powers into obtenerbration, removing the oblivion stain mechanics and ad some powers from previous editions. A lot of the disciplines are messy and misbalanced in v5 but out oblivion is outright terrible

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                          • #58
                            Rotten to the Core

                            Type: Fiction

                            Synopsis: Ken Higashiyama, Brujah member of the Rough Road, a Camarilla biker gang reflects on the changes to the world.

                            Analysis: This one of the stories is decptively useful despite being one of my least favorite. It actually provides something in a way of a sense of how vampire society as a whole is acting to the sudden religious re-awakening among its members. It also is from the perspective of a Brujah that reminds us that while the Camarilla removed the Inner Council seat from the Brujah as well as their Justicar, it otherwise did very little to effect them as a whole. Really, it's not so much the Camarilla kicked them out as a huge chunk of the Clan is in open revolt.

                            The Camarilla book also indicates that the Brujah didn't lose their position on the Inner Council so much as someone assassinated their member. It is in Screkt's discussion of how everything has utterly gone to Hell on page 120.

                            The attack on the Camarilla Inner Circle some years ago was a blip, I believe, and though rumors hold of the Brujah losing their representative (I am shedding no tears since their betrayal) and one of the Nosferatu disappearing somewhere beyond the veil, I feel the city is entirely safe.

                            In that case, Adana de Sforza wasn't kicked out at all. The Camarilla was just pretending they got rid of her.
                            Basically, the Brujah were going to an Anarch city to slaughter and maim as Camarilla Brujah are wont to do but couldn't because there were no Anarchs. Instead, the city has become a place where many cults were feuding instead. It creeped out the Brujah gang involved and they ultimately left.

                            People forget that religion spreads like a wildfire in the right environment and Kindred are no more immune.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                            • #59
                              Its also worth noting that in the end the Brujah MC is talking to a Ministry Anarch and considers converting or at least finding religion themselves.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Jonny View Post
                                Its also worth noting that in the end the Brujah MC is talking to a Ministry Anarch and considers converting or at least finding religion themselves.
                                True but I took that as sarcastic.


                                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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