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Sorcerer - path of healing: gateway to immortality?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Solomon Draak View Post
    Thanks for the reply, Black Fox.
    I'm glad it provided you some perspective although clearly you like your idea so much you're not convinced. And that's fine. Personal taste and interpretation of the genre is a big component to the World of Darkness. De gustibus non est disputandum. If I was your ST I'd say no to your idea. If someone else were our ST, then I'd have to live with it being allowed. Or if our tastes are just too different, best to be in separate playing groups.

    Originally posted by Solomon Draak View Post
    Now, in my modest opinion that may be biased or wrong, these things are more blatantly supernatural and "impossible"than, say, healing scar tissues and artery obstructions.
    That's both true and utterly irrelevant. Each Path has its own description. It doesn't matter that you think one is over the top supernatural so you think the other should be as well. But the Path of Healing includes certain restrictions, and those need to be taken into consideration as the ST decides how to interpret things. As I said, I find it hard that any Path that must follow some kind of medicinal knowledge/folklore/legend and can't heal aggravated damage could therefore make someone immortal. I think it's perfectly fine for the Path of Healing to result in "miracles" unexplained by medical science because that happens in real life. I'd allow someone blind to spontaneously recover their sight as a result of a faith healer, someone bringing the water of Lourdes to a patient, or exorcising a demon's curse from them, but I wouldn't allow someone whose eyes were gouged out to suddenly regenerate new eyeballs even though both are technically "the blind can now see." I also know there are some players who would be extremely angry that I don't allow gouged eyeballs to grow back when I allowed somebody else to heal the blind differently. I try not to play with them.

    Now personally, I do think some of the more blatant Sorcerer Paths ARE too over the top for the supposed "it isn't subject to Paradox" limits that the book tells us. For my own chronicles, I've come up with solutions to that issue that works for me. But that's really a whole separate argument and entirely relies on my own personal tastes. Not relevant to this thread.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
      I just don't hold that it can be done through use of the Path of Healing on a constant basis. There should be something special involved. Not shotgunning the use of a Path.
      I think we had a miscommunication here due to how you phrased post #11, or maybe just due to the state of the conversation then, IDK. I read that as a lot more hostile to the idea, maybe? Maybe that was me, it doesn't matter, sorry, though.

      Just to be clear, I don't interpreted the OP as shotgunning the use of a path. The question was if a character that was purposefully working outside expectations would have a chance to prolong their lifespan. The direct question didn't even required the answer to include immortality despite it being in the title. So not even Solomon Draak assumed immortality as likely.

      Either way, going by my own understanding of the genre and of physiology, I would have the idea of living longer through Path of Healing some thought. A life span of 200 years does seems reasonable to me for someone continually healing herself this way. And a longer life or even immortality would be fitting for some kinds of figures. I'm also personally fond of such outlier characters, almost normal humans or animals that achieved something through an almost mundane way, instead of resorting to the shenanigans of the "Big Splats". Path of Healing isn't the most likely to bear fruit (Alchemy and Neidan, maybe), but isn't impossible.

      And curiously, I think a True Mage shouldn't work, precisely because of Paradox. This is a piece of RAW that is also a big thing in lore. By the end of the 11th century the Consensus started to shut off immortality magic, and it started to accrue Permadox. This is important because it caused a lot of chaos among Mages, since not only yes, this was possible, as this was also a relatively common thing among great masters and even more in some circles.

      The end of immortality was an event almost as drastic in the background of Mage as the Avatar Storm, maybe even more. The leadership of most groups had too long lives, subjecting them to big Paradox backlashes, resulting in death for some and forcing the others into the Umbra. It was when the leadership of most factions shifted to the spirit realms. In many cases people experimented with extreme methods, with dire results, like the botched concoctions of Goratrix in House Tremere.

      Well, the thing with sorcerers is precisely their ability to do just a few things a Mage can do, but without Paradox. So a Sorcerer doing that is ironic and extremely fitting.


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      • #18
        The easiest way for this magic to work without needing far more knowledge from the caster would be to identify causes and remove them. And if it can identify viruses, then identifying cancer cells is easy. It is impossible for US to surgically remove every single cancerous cell, but this is a spell. And removing every single cell isn't any harder than repairing their DNA, since we're still talking about the DNA of individual cells.

        Oh, just to be clear, this is extremely off-topic and irrelevant, I'm just having fun with the argument, tell me if you're tired of it.
        I never tire talking about medicine Do you know I wanted to become a doctor when I was younger? Then I settled studying philosophy and failing in that too. Oh well.
        I don't think it's off topic, we are discussing fictional magic and real world medicine interactions.

        About repairing DNA: there is a function of the immunitary system , the DNA enzyme repair, that does precisely that, heals genetic damage in cells or induce apoptosi in irrevocabily compromised ones. The amount of DNA repair varies depending on many factors ( cell type, cell age, general state of the tissue ).

        If we had not this system we wouldn't even reach adulthood. So I though the easier and most logical way to work would be to enhance that natural reponse.


        The same goes for meningitis, you can heal the lesion
        And that's a lot, really a lot. Imagine being able to repair, even partially, brain lesions.

        ---

        Y’all sound like a bunch of Technocrats. It’s magic, there is no scientific mechanism, the magic just makes people get better.
        The book explicitly says that this path requires some kill in Medicine, the higher the better, although it also says that Medicine often do not come from western background. The healer , according to the book descriptions, uses massages, agopunture, herbs and "foul smelling brews" ( sic! ) along with more mystical thing as meditation and chanting.



        ----


        There should be something special involved. Not shotgunning the use of a Path.
        Actually, there is a lot of special things involved. Such a life would be a very dedicated, disciplined, almost mystical existence.
        Since healing major aliments takes a lot from the healer ( according to the book ), the main way to maximize path's effectiveness would be to use it as less as possible. And that means to reduce as much as you can the wear on the body.

        Healthy and low-calory diet, rigorous - but moderate and cautious - physical training regimen, daily meditation and breathing techniques in order to slow the heartbeat and reduce bot physical and psicological stress, and so on.

        Most importantly, it wouldn't be true immortality but "only" indefinite life prolonging, heavily dependent on continuous and scrupolous maintenance.
        Last edited by Solomon Draak; 09-23-2021, 04:53 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Solomon Draak View Post
          heals genetic damage in cells or induce apoptosi in irrevocabily compromised ones. The amount of DNA repair varies depending on many factors ( cell type, cell age, general state of the tissue ).
          I think in this case, of the spell enhancing the repair enzymes, it would mostly induce apoptosis and heal lesions, since very few cancerous cells would be considered useful tissue. They're mostly extra tissue, frequently of the wrong type, and the original tissue isn't necessarily lacking healthy cells unless as a byproduct of cancer instead of a direct result of the DNA damage.

          At most it could save a few to use a reposition material or, who knows, maybe healing their DNA to the point of them becoming stem cells. That would be really neat and really powerful, and totally possible of increasing someone's life expectancy, although I'd say that this would only be possible to a modern sorcerer able to grasp the concept.


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