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Combining Clans to get back to 7

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  • #31
    My version:

    Bru: Cel, Pot, Pre, Pro
    Gan: Ani, For, Obf, Pro
    Mal: Aus, Dom, Obf, Chi
    Nos: Ani, Cel, Obf, Pot
    Tor: Aus, Cel, Pre, Chi
    Tre: Ani, Aus, Dom, For
    Ven: Dom, For, Pot, Pre

    Total: Ani 3, Aus 3, Cel 3, Chi 2, Dom 3, For 3, Obf 3, Pot 3, Pre 3, Pro 2

    Although, I think a more interesting version of this game would be to do the Hecata thing and blend VTM clans according to the alliances they'd make for survival.

    So, assume all the clans' founders have woken up, slaked their Hunger on their grandchilder, and left all the clans fragmented and broken (and the sects are shattered too). How would they reconstitute themselves to survive?

    I could see it going along Second Generation lines, for example. Or along the lines of which Disciplines they favour.

    So the Hecata is a given. I'll give them Dominate, Fortitude, Potence. Necromancy is available to them at out of clan costs.

    Let's say the FoS+Baali+Lasombra become a new clan, Obsidia, that controls mortal religions from the shadows and acts as priests to vampire-kind. Weakness: No reflection, double damage from sunlight and True Faith. Disciplines: Dominate, Obfuscate, Presence. Obtenebration is available out of clan.

    Then there's the Assamites+Tremere+Tzimisce, becoming a new sorcerer clan, Ashipu. They are scholars, lords and occultists, often living in remote places but commanding mortal cults to serve them. Weakness: Being away from their home turf weakens them, as per the Tzimisce weakness. They cannot make blood bonds and their vitae is mutagenic to other vampires. Disciplines: Animalism, Auspex, Protean. Thaumaturgy is out of clan.

    Brujah+Toreador+Ravnos+Malkavian become the decadent ravers, the Istarri. Driven by intense passions, they are driven by vice and indulgence. Weakness: +2 difficulty to resist indulging a vice. All gain a single obsession in addition to this. Disciplines: Auspex, Obfuscate, Presence. Chimerstry is out of clan for them.

    Gangrel+Nosferatu become the Neferat, a clan of monsters who take on the blighted forms of the places they inhabit. Weakness: Neferat distort the places they are in. Sewers are filled with mutant rats and become mazelike tunnels that trap prey. A forest becomes a nightmare place of darkness and savage animals. The Neferat changes in turn, taking on monstrous features in alignment with their domain. In addition, their social pools are capped by their Humanity, due to this level of monstrosity. (They ignore this penalty when dealing with allies.) Disciplines: Animalism, Obfuscate, Protean. Maybe they can take Sanguinis out of clan, which in this case would allow them to swap body parts and merge with the animals/critters in their domain. It might have some elements of Visceratika woven into it.

    Ventrue+DoC+Salubri become the Baobani, a clan of leaders and prophets whose siren song allows them to calm the kine, seduce Kindred and heal the sick. Weakness: They cannot feed from the unwilling, though they can use their siren call to bewitch their marks. Disciplines: Auspex, Dominate, Presence. Obeah would be out of clan and Melpominee would be folded into Presence. Obeah would work via song instead of touch.

    Totals: Animalism 2, Auspex 3, Dominate 3, Fortitude 1, Obfuscate 3, Potence 1, Presence 3, Protean 2. I could shift things around a bit more for a more even spread, but I don't mind this.
    Last edited by adambeyoncelowe; 09-02-2022, 02:28 AM.


    Writer, publisher, performer
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    • #32
      Originally posted by adambeyoncelowe View Post
      My version:Totals: Animalism 2, Auspex 3, Dominate 3, Fortitude 1, Obfuscate 3, Potence 1, Presence 3, Protean 2. I could shift things around a bit more for a more even spread, but I don't mind this.
      I couldn't help but notice the only of your new groupings that have physical attributes are the Hecata. You could give them Auspex, Dominate, and Necromancy - then you could make physical attributes equal across the board.

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      • #33
        Here is my attempt at this post.

        Followers Of Set & Tremere: The outcasts of Kindred society who seek out dark and dangerous lore and practice potent and dangerous blood magics in the name of Set and other blood Gods. Yet many Kindred feel the need to make deals with them as there information gathering network and diveristy of contacts is superior to even the Nosferatu can even muster at any given time and a willing to grant with no seeming strings attached.

        Disciplines Spread: Auspex, Blood Sorcery, Potence and Presence.

        Weakness: I would keep the original weakness and maybe the Assamite Sorceror caste weakness of being unable to conceal there mystic nature.


        What in the name of Set is going on here?

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        • #34
          Another combo I had thought of is Banu Haqim/Ventrue: The self proclaimed rulers and judges of kindred society who feel a need to guide the other lesser clans by example and judge others by there incredibly high standards and dispose of those who are unworthy of the blood and try to curb the worst excesses of there kind as they know that humanity can wipe them out by sheer numbers and advanced weapons.

          Discipline spread: Auspex, Dominate Fortitude & Presence:

          Weakness: They must feed from a specfic group of humans to avoid hunger frenzies.


          What in the name of Set is going on here?

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          • #35
            Were I to do this...

            I'd just use the Main 7 clans. Or 6+caitiff
            Wait I really like the Potence/Dominate and Obfuscate Presence combination...
            Alright:

            Brujah, Gangrel, Malkavian, Nosferatu, Toreador and Ventrue stay as they are. What's interesting would be how the other clans/disciplines are handled.

            Tremere are Caitiff
            Assamites, FoS, Ravnos are cults not clans.
            The Lasombra and Tzmisce are clubs other clans can join (mostly Malkavians) (Note: Lasombra is a much less stupid name when it's a club you can join rather than a clan)




            The old Clan specific Disciplines still exist, they just have side effects for learning. This is why you're probably going to join a cult/sect once you learn them. Exotic bloods are highly beneficial for these disciplines, but these too come with side effects.

            Thaumaturgy, Protean and Necromancy just have a lot of social baggage around them. They're not faction specific and don't need exotic blood: every vampire is capable of discovering these powers on their own provided they have the knowledge. This includes Variants of these powers like Serpentis, Thanatosis, Akhu, Dur-An-Ki and so on.




            Chimestry
            Chimestry can be developed from the blood of changelings, or those who teach the discipline. More than the blood, the power requires a certain level of philosophical and cognitive alteration: The practitioner must believe in their own illusions while simultaneously not believing in them enough that they don't accidentally break them. Chimestry burns through a lot of willpower so it doesn't per-se need a massive adjustment for a weakness. Perhaps, after each use, the user becomes weak to cold iron for a time. Cold iron doing aggravated damage. Hunting Changelings is also quite dangerous. Perhaps users might also be more susceptible to flights of fancy/vice/derangements while they have changeling blood within them.

            Diamonion
            Learned through the blood of demons or those contaminated. Having such blood within you will cause paranormal phenomena and practicing the discipline will increase the user's vulnerability to faith.

            Obtenebration:
            The blood of the monsters who originated this power are exceedingly rare and so this power is usually taught to those who can pass the cruel trials of the Lasombra. Every single power has a side effect when used that persists for a time after use. Usually an anti-social supernatural effect; something like eerie presence or losing your reflection. The higher level the power, the bigger the issue.

            Quietus:
            Learned by drinking from poisoned/drugged individuals. Vampires have their skin darken according to how many levels of Quietus they have. This darkening is similar to that of Arsenic poisoning. Using my Quietus book, the first level of quietus allows the vampire to safely store a poison/drug in their body for later use, one point per level of Quietus. This is not terribly uncommon and the darkening effect is barely apparent at first level. However later levels require delving further into sampling poisoned/drugged blood and can take quite a toll on the user's humanity.


            Vicissitude
            Drinking from fleshcrafted creatures provides the blood needed for vicissitude. Vicissitude is somewhat addicting and many will self destruct looking for metamorphosis, kinda like a bodybuilder ruining his body in the pursuit of looking more than healthy. However, the true costs of vicissitude come from it's experiments: A shaper will need a lot of practice and that comes at the lives of hundreds of test subjects (hopefully animals) which has a huge impact on anyone on the path of humanity. Many Elders also persecute shapers: The ability to grant wanted criminals new faces to hide behind is a strong destabilizer for polite kindred society. Some versions of the book of Nod also condemn the practice.


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            • #36
              Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
              (Note: Lasombra is a much less stupid name when it's a club you can join rather than a clan)
              Not to nitpick just one part of your otherwise cool post, but why is Lasombra a stupid name? Univerbation is a common feature of many Romance languages. We have examples of real-world surnames like the French Legrand, which, if "translated," would be "Thegreat," or the Spanish Laguardia, "Theguard," or the Italian "Laporta," "Thedoor." But nobody ever "translates" real-world family names in an attempt to show how dumb they are. It's only fictional names that are ever stupid, or illogical, or any other bunch of complaints I've seen over the years. I've never really understood why voicing concerns over fictional names is so common among roleplaying fans in particular. Real-world names are often dumb as shit, too.

              Just about the only complaint concerning the names of the vampire clans that I think is valid is that the clans are supposed to predate the languages from which they take their names by millennia. However, that is only a problem if you ascribe to the idea that vampiric society is completely static and no linguistic drift whatsoever takes place over the course of centuries. I think the lexicon sections common to all White Wolf game lines demonstrate that that's untrue. Personally, I don't think that any of the current clan names are older than 500 years, with a few exceptions (such as, appropriately enough, Clan Tzimisces). My view is that whenever Dark Ages books and other material set in the distant past use the modern clan names, it's simply a convenience for the sake of the reader. After all, the characters in the books also speak and write in modern English, not Medieval Latin or whatever, for reasons that are just as obvious.

              Anyway, rant over.

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              • #37
                Brujah meaning "Witch" is good dumb fun and I think the rebelious Brujah would mostly be very happy with it.
                But "The Shadow" is decisively uncool. Granted, the Lasombra are very often caught up in their Chūnibyō phase but... would the name really be decided upon by them? IDK about you but I'd think most Lasombra are too elitist to pick such a base name.


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                • #38
                  Well, to elaborate on the view I expressed above about the modern clan names being no more than 500 years old, I also don't think that any of the clan names were decided upon by the clan members themselves. Ventrue would not have proudly called themselves "potbellied." Nosferatu might have purposefully taken on the name "disease-bearers" with grins on their ugly faces, but most likely it was just another nickname that eventually became the "real" clan name through linguistic drift. Similarly, I think Lasombra just got called "the shadows" by others for long enough that eventually it stuck. The nicknames of today, like "blue bloods," "sewer rats," and "keepers," might be the "proper" clan names of the distant future (assuming there is no Gehenna to end it all in the interim).

                  I'm also not convinced that Brujah was ever meant to be a Spanish word. I will grant you that it has been a popular thing to say among the fandom for 30 years, but I've never seen or heard Rein-Hagen confirm it. Spanish words don't end in h, but it's a common feature in other languages, and as it happens, brujah (with an h) is a legitimate word in several Slavic languages. Бру́јати is an onomatopoeic expression that means to drone, hum, sizzle, or hiss. Брујах (brujah) is simply the past tense of the verb.

                  I make no claims that this is the "real" definition of Clan Brujah, but I have just as much evidence for this being the case as the people who insist that Brujah means "witch with an h stuck at the end" have for theirs.
                  Last edited by Elphilm; 09-04-2022, 11:16 AM.

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                  • #39
                    Yeah I wans't convinced of the "witch" thing either. It just seemed a point people liked to bring up here

                    brou·haha


                    [ˈbruːhɑːhɑː]




                    NOUN
                    • a noisy and overexcited reaction or response to something:
                      "the brouhaha over those infamous commercials" · [More]

                      synonyms:
                      disturbance · racket · uproar · tumult · ruckus · clamour · furore · hue and cry · palaver · fuss · stir · to-do · storm · maelstrom · melee · turmoil · disorder · confusion · chaos · mayhem · havoc · pandemonium · upheaval · unrest · fracas · riot · [More]


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                    • #40
                      Yeah, I'm aware of the brouhaha suggestion, but I don't think it's any more convincing than Spanish witches. The pronunciation guide for Brujah on page 136 of the original 1991 core book is "brōō' jä", which doesn't resemble any real-world word I know of. However, since the pronunciation guide is for English speakers, the j would be pronounced like the one in jaw, I think. There's no way an English speaker would come up with ˈbruːhɑː from brōō' jä.

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                      • #41
                        A few years ago I saw an interview with Mark Rein-Hagen and he pronounced the “j” in Brujah in the English way, not like a Spanish h sound. Which suggests to me that he never intended their name to sound like the Spanish word for witch and that the similar spelling is just a coincidence.

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                        • #42
                          English is in the minority for using J like dg. Only french is a little similar. Almost everyone else in europe uses it like a y.

                          Still, even the dg way to say Brujah doesn't sound too far off Brouhaha.


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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                            English is in the minority for using J like dg. Only french is a little similar. Almost everyone else in europe uses it like a y.

                            Still, even the dg way to say Brujah doesn't sound too far off Brouhaha.
                            Actually Portuguese does the same, and maybe Galician. Not quite a dg, but more similar to it than y or h.

                            But then, none of those pronunciations get far enough from each other to not ring some bells, and the Spanish Bruja (Broo-ha)is Bruxa in Portuguese (Broo-sha), which sounds even more similar to the dg pronunciation.

                            Yet there's a twist to it: this pronunciation with an sh-sounding X also relates to a romance word for "grinding teeth", still used in Italian with the bruxa inflection (and still present bruxismo in Portuguese, a name for the compulsive grinding of teeth).


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                            • #44
                              Obviously we need to use the best version of Clan Names, the ones in the Book of Nod.

                              No more Ventrue you have Kingship Clan, no more Gangrel you have the Clan of the Beast, no more Malkavian you have the Moon Clan, ect. I think the Lasombra would be either the Clan of the Night or the Night Clan. Brujah would be the Clan of the Learned or the Learned Clan.

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                              • #45
                                I really have a hard time believing that Brujah were ever scholars when they're geared towards Potence/ Celerity/ Presence. Might be something they did in spite of their tallents/ to focus their rage/so that they have better arguments; but there's nothing about them that suggests they would be more scholarly than any other clan. Venture have as much need of education as Brujah. Maybe it's because it's so surprising that people remember such a thing. Kinda like how dangerous driving isn't newsworthy but a bicycle crash causes folks to lose their mind.


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