The Death of Melinda Galbraith

[Karos]

I'm currently working on a chronicle set in Mexico City, following the eruption of the Fourth Sabbat Civil War. What I'm trying to pin down, however, is what exactly happened around Galbraith's death in terms of a timeline.

Clanbook Tzimisce Revised - States that the true Galbraith was slain in 2000 as part of the 'Millenial Palla Grande', it also shows the 'arcane symbol' left to mark her death and Sikorsky standing over the remains.

Mexico City by Night - Contradicts this, it instead states that Galbraith dies in 2001 and the remains were again discovered by Sikorsky, symbol and all. (I'm inclined to include this is just a typo and should read 2000, not 2001.)

Beckett's Jyhad Diary - This muddles things even more, it seems to suggest that Galbraith died well before 2000 (according to Vasantasena it was 'sixteen years ago') and that Sikorsky who'd been impersonating Galbraith was the one killed in 2000. This is confusing on three counts:
1) It alleges that Galbraith died 16 years prior in 1984 and was replaced by Sikorsky, this means both Mexico City and Clanbook Tzimisce were incorrect and Sikorsky would've had to discover and impersonate the Regent much earlier. This isn't possible, however, as Sikorsky wasn't embraced until 1996.
2) Vasantasena theorises that 'whatever annihilated the Tremere antitribu just a year before' is responsible. The issue being, the Tremere Antitribu were destroyed in 1998, meaning a year later is 1999. This doesn't tally with the original year of 2000 or 1984.
3) It is heavily implied that the Palla Grande Beckett attends is the Millenial Palla Grande, i.e. that in the year 2000 when the Sabbat Fourth Civil War erupts. If this is the case, then we'd have both Galbraith and then her impersonator dying in short succession on the same night.

So my current timeline is:
1984 - The death of Galbraith, according to Vasantasena. (BJD)
1996 - Sikorsky, eventual impersonator of Galbraith is embraced. (Clanbook Tzimisce)
2000 - Galbraith is killed and impersonated by Sikorsky. (Clanbook Tzimisce)
2000 - Sikorsky (in the form of Galbraith) is killed. (BJD)
2001 - Galbraith is killed and impersonated by Sikorsky. (Mexico City by Night)

Any input much appreciated, this is going to be quite pivotal to my chronicle so I'm keen to get the dates right!

[AkatsukiLeader13]

When BJD says sixteen years, does it specifically say the year or does the character just say 'sixteen years ago'? Because BJD doesn't take place in 2000. If I remember right, it takes place roughly around the time the book was written would put it around 2016 which would make the sixteen years ago comment right.

[Reasor]

The dates are inconsistent because no one responsible cared about this storyline going anywhere or having a canon resolution. Even BJD* neglects to wrap it up. You have wiggle room to set the dates whenever suits you best.

*One of my favorite scenes from BJD has Vasantasena fingering Elimalech as the killer, and then blaming the deaths of the Tremere Antitribu on him also (which is known to be wrong). The closest thing the Sabbat has to a visionary psychic seer doesn't know jack about what happened, either. It's all literally just a story seed for you to work with at your game table, in whatever way you find entertaining.

[Karos]

My understanding is the majority of the events in BJD are meant to end by 2005. I conjectured that the Palla Grande referenced was the Millenial one because:
1) Beckett refers to Vasantasena being embraced 'roughly 1,000 years ago', she was embraced 1000 CE, ergo 2000 or there abouts.
2) The chapter's end-matter covering plot hooks, talks about the start of the war on terror and the 9/11 attacks as being recent. (It specifically claims De Pollonia, exploits the tragedy by claiming responsibility.) That makes me think it can't be any later than 2001-2003.

Lucita does refer to Cainites that 'have already gone East to destroy the graves of ancients in the shadow of the mortal war and we're only three years into this'. I guess it would depend on what 'this' exactly is, is it either A) The war on terror or B) The Gehenna Crusade.

[Karos]

The dates are inconsistent because no one responsible cared about this storyline going anywhere or having a canon resolution. Even BJD neglects to wrap it up. You have wiggle room to set the dates whenever suits you best.

Strikes me as a little cynical, if they didn't want to wrap it up though, why raise it? More importantly, why have Vasantasena raise the possibility of alternative dates, why not just leave it as it was? With the approximate death being around 2000-2001.

[CTPhipps]

The dates are inconsistent because no one responsible cared about this storyline going anywhere or having a canon resolution. Even BJD* neglects to wrap it up. You have wiggle room to set the dates whenever suits you best.

*One of my favorite scenes from BJD has Vasantasena fingering Elimalech as the killer, and then blaming the deaths of the Tremere Antitribu on him also (which is known to be wrong). The closest thing the Sabbat has to a visionary psychic seer doesn't know jack about what happened, either. It's all literally just a story seed for you to work with at your game table, in whatever way you find entertaining.

This is notably not the case. BJD doesn't have the dates set because it's meant to be part of the "canon agnostic" V20. All of the events happen when the ST decides they do.

Revised and V5 have their own timeline.

[Karos]

This is notably not the case. BJD doesn't have the dates set because it's meant to be part of the "canon agnostic" V20. All of the events happen when the ST decides they do.

Revised and V5 have their own timeline.

Yet there seems to be implications here of some sort of some approximate dates to say the least. I'm mostly inclined to say that Vasantasena's comment about the Regent dying 16-years earlier is just paranoid rambling.

Instead, both the false-Galbraith (Sikorsky) and the true Galbraith die on the same night, or in short succession. True Galbraith dies (or fakes her own death) leading Sikorsky to panic and impersonate her. The assassins of the true Galbraith (or her allies if she faked it) implement a contingency plan and assassinate the false-Galbraith in short order.

[CTPhipps]

Yet there seems to be implications here of some sort of some approximate dates to say the least. I'm mostly inclined to say that Vasantasena's comment about the Regent dying 16-years earlier is just paranoid rambling.

Instead, both the false-Galbraith (Sikorsky) and the true Galbraith die on the same night, or in short succession. True Galbraith dies (or fakes her own death) leading Sikorsky to panic and impersonate her. The assassins of the true Galbraith (or her allies if she faked it) implement a contingency plan and assassinate the false-Galbraith in short order.

I don't think that's the case the False Gailbraith was used as a puppet by Jalan and possibly others for a pretty long time.

[Karos]

I don't think that's the case the False Gailbraith was used as a puppet by Jalan and possibly others for a pretty long time.

Have you got some sources I could look at? I'd be very interested so I can try and build a fuller picture of things. (I mean that with all due sincerity and respect, aware normally asking for sources can come across a bit hostile online! I'm honestly looking to try and build the best chronology I can.)

[CTPhipps]

Have you got some sources I could look at? I'd be very interested so I can try and build a fuller picture of things. (I mean that with all due sincerity and respect, aware normally asking for sources can come across a bit hostile online! I'm honestly looking to try and build the best chronology I can.)

I sadly believe only CLAN BOOK: TZIMSICE and BJD refer to the whole plot.

[Matt the Bruins fan]

Might there not also be something about that in Caine's Chosen: The Black Hand? I know it had material about what Jalan Ajav had been doing with the subsect since the Week of Nightmares.

[Kharnov]

I must admit, I don't have a copy of BJD handy, but I don't ever recall it describing Sikorsky's/"Galbraith's" Final Death as being way in the past. My understanding was that the events of the relevant chapter had to do with the relatively recent death of "Galbraith" resulting in the negotiations around the new Regent that were part of why Lucita and Beckett were down in Mexico.

[SuperSabbatST]

So here's the pre v20 deets.

1. Melinda Galbraith was infernal and a puppet of Shaitan/Nergal in Mexico City (this is covered in Chaos Factor.)

2. If you follow all the bread crumbs it's pretty obvious that it was the Tlacique that killed her. They were the new bloodline published at the time that were becoming the Sabbat boogeyman. There's a LOT of hints to this that is spread out among the revised books.

[CTPhipps]

I always assumed Shaitan himself killed Galbraith.

[SuperSabbatST]

Why would he kill a useful puppet to control an entire sect of vampires?