Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Vicissitude and Nosferatu

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    I find the idea of a wholesale shunning of the Nosferatu... unlikely. Yes, THAT face is going to make a lot of people uncomfortable, so best not have them as guests. I'm somewhat on the fence about MoaTF being used to make Nosferatu guests more palatable. I mean obfuscate is to an extent about suspension of disbelief*, and while it's all very good to pretend the man's Brad Pitt it's another to know he's really a slimy nosferatu and you really aught to avoid shaking that hand.

    But politically they're just too damn useful. And they're very much optimized towards ruining your day. So they're everyone's secret friend they're ashamed of.


    Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
    There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

    Comment


    • #47
      Actually, I just found that the rule allows for a "pretty" Nosferatu.

      Unmarred Face (2 to 6pt. Merit) Even if your body is a leprous husk of pustules or a monstrous chimera of fused animals, your face remains eerily pristine. So long as your face is the only part of you that is visible, your effective Appearance rating is one dot for every two points invested in the Merit. Nosferatu characters with this Merit suffer worsened deformities in other parts of their bodies, gaining at least one physical Flaw for which they gain no points (as well as the undying scorn of their clanmates). Obviously, this Merit is useless (and not permissible) to characters without serious full-body deformity of some kind.


      If the guy wears full clothing ( for example, an ankle-lenght frock-coat, wool slacks, monk-straps boots, gentleman's gloves and a scarf to cover the neck ) , takes the 6pt Merit and some others not forbidden to Nosferatu ( Blush of Health, Enchanting Gaze, Enchanting Voice, Sex Appeal, Innocent ) you can have a Nosferatu that is at the same time beautiful, cute and sexy.
      Too bad he's a coyote-boar-vulture hybrid under the clothes.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Reasor View Post
        Complicating all of this further is that Dracula supposedly fleshcrafts away Beckett's bestial features from his clan's weakness in Beckett's Jyhad Diary.
        I'm about 90% sure you're mixing this up with Beckett's visit to Hunedoara, though I haven't taken the time to read through the entire chapter to confirm. And his benefactor there DEFINITELY falls outside of the normal rules.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Black Fox View Post

          I don't know if we're using the same definitions for words. I don't think ANY of the clan curses should be crippling. In most games I've played, they are typically only flavor text or roleplaying incentives (the player is inspired by it and wants to explore it). Sometimes they do become "story fuel", but only because the ST needs something to hook the players, and it could just as easily be anything else they have on their character sheet or backstory.
          You are right, I should have clarified better what I meant was "potentially crippling"

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Kharnov View Post

            I'm about 90% sure you're mixing this up with Beckett's visit to Hunedoara, though I haven't taken the time to read through the entire chapter to confirm. And his benefactor there DEFINITELY falls outside of the normal rules.
            You don't say? :P

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Haquim View Post
              That said, let me tell you something about clan weaknesses, how effective/crippling they are depends entirely on the ST and chronicle.
              Depends, indeed. But not entirely. It took me some time to put this into words. Well, that and the "crippling" part Black Fox already talked about.

              The ST has a lot of leeway to adjust how much a Weakness affects the characters, but that isn't in a void. They aren't equally easy to adjust or to affect the game without jeopardizing other narratives.

              I'm always an advocate that the RAW must make the ST's work as easy as possible in this regard, because this is a game, not a job, the ST can't be the only one responsible for making things work. It starts with the books.

              ‚ÄčAnd Dogstar comment came in this line of thought. He didn't complained about the Nosferatu Weakness in a void, but on how much the way it is written encourages STs to apply it disproportionately harsher than others.

              So, this is the problem. How harsh those weaknesses should be? How hard is it for a random ST to grasp it and apply all weaknesses in a solid, consistent and balanced manner?

              On top of that, it must be applied in a way that do not stay in the way of the chronicle, and the problem with the Tremere original one was that it pretty much forced the ST to consider the Pyramid beyond what was most of the time planned for the game.


              #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs
              #AutismPride
              She/her pronouns

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
                Depends, indeed. But not entirely. It took me some time to put this into words. Well, that and the "crippling" part Black Fox already talked about.

                The ST has a lot of leeway to adjust how much a Weakness affects the characters, but that isn't in a void. They aren't equally easy to adjust or to affect the game without jeopardizing other narratives.

                I'm always an advocate that the RAW must make the ST's work as easy as possible in this regard, because this is a game, not a job, the ST can't be the only one responsible for making things work. It starts with the books.

                ‚ÄčAnd Dogstar comment came in this line of thought. He didn't complained about the Nosferatu Weakness in a void, but on how much the way it is written encourages STs to apply it disproportionately harsher than others.

                So, this is the problem. How harsh those weaknesses should be? How hard is it for a random ST to grasp it and apply all weaknesses in a solid, consistent and balanced manner?

                On top of that, it must be applied in a way that do not stay in the way of the chronicle, and the problem with the Tremere original one was that it pretty much forced the ST to consider the Pyramid beyond what was most of the time planned for the game.
                There is no way to answer your questions. First of all, a "random storyteller" does not exist, there are people and you need to interact with them in order to play VtM. The best thing you can do is to speak with the ST before playing and trying establishing some common ground. Ask them what their approach to the Nosferatu's curse is and see if you are ok with it or if you think it would be too much of an hassle to have a weakness of that kind and would prefer to play some other clan instead.

                Generally speaking in my Camarilla games I treat the Nosferatu's curse as follows: other vampires know what you are and love to make snide comments behind your back about your appearance, yet they court you in secret because of the secrets you may possess. "High clans" don't like to associate with your kind too closely in public but you are a full member of their society and can enjoy all of the "benefits" of it. Your clan has a primogen and wields real power in court, perhaps more so than many other clans although such power is used sparingly, subtly, and it's never flaunted. Your unique condition makes the masquerade even more stringent for you and your kind, you must take every care not to be discovered by mortals as you can hardly pass for one of them. This doesn't mean you don't interact with mortals but you should do so in a way that minimizes the risk to the masquerade as you know the court and, before it, your brood, enforce the punishments for carelessness harshly.

                Edit: btw, as far as the mechanics are concerned I personally think Requiem did a much better job handling the Nosferatu's curse tha VtM ever did. You are not ugly, your aura is dreadful. A way more elegant concept as it's much wider in scope than just being set to Appearance 0.
                Last edited by Haquim; 12-27-2021, 07:58 PM.

                Comment


                • #53
                  All weaknesses tend to get toned down in my experience, simply because ST's have stories to tell, and it's hard to simultaneously remember everyone's weaknesses and tell the story at the same time. I end up bringing up my clan weakness, whatever that might be at the time, much more often than the ST does.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Kharnov View Post

                    I'm about 90% sure you're mixing this up with Beckett's visit to Hunedoara, though I haven't taken the time to read through the entire chapter to confirm. And his benefactor there DEFINITELY falls outside of the normal rules.
                    LOL "I'm pretty sure you're wrong, haven't read the text though." This has to be the Platonic ideal of "well, actually" argumentation.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Let's keep the hostility down, please.


                      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                      Forum Terms of Use
                      the Contact Us link.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Reasor View Post

                        LOL "I'm pretty sure you're wrong, haven't read the text though." This has to be the Platonic ideal of "well, actually" argumentation.
                        I have read the text, a few times. I haven't read it in the last six months or so, which is why I'm not 100% sure.

                        Should edit it to "I haven't read the chapter AGAIN to confirm." But by all means, go check yourself, quote it if I'm wrong

                        Maybe apologize for the snark if I'm not ^_^

                        PS I know exactly where to find the quote that proves Beckett loses his beast-marks in Hunedoara, btw, just felt like avoiding the spoilers. I just have not re-read every single word of the earlier Dracula chapter to confirm beyond a doubt that there wasn't *another* case of Beckett's beast-marks being scrubbed.

                        PPS It's also not me just correcting you for the sake of being a prick. There's a huge difference between a folk legend that straddles the line between Elder and Methuselah and
                        a freaking Antediluvian
                        . It's pretty relevant to the subject being discussed.
                        Last edited by Kharnov; 12-29-2021, 01:05 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Definitely not. The Nosferatu curse makes it impossible to improve their appearance. Any effort to make them look human would simply fail.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X