What is the safest way to live an happy life in the OWoD?

[Solomon Draak]

It's a fairly generic question, since happiness is indeed subjective...

but I think we can all ( almost all? ) agree that starving, being physically and mentally abused, falling prey to supernatural ( or mundane ) predators and losing your health ( body, mind and soul ) are sure way to NOT live an happy life.

So, what's the best bet for a common mortal to live a life that is not nightmarishly painful, sad and short?

- - -

According to most rules, I would say "keep the highest scores of Willpower, Humanity and True Faith you're able to muster".
More astractly, exercise prudence, common sense, moderation, a little bit of detachment too.
Other suggestions more than welcome.

[Kharnov]

Since you forgot to include "long," the answer is probably "set yourself up for one really good day, then kill yourself in the least painful way possible."

The longer answer is that it's just not realistically something you can control. You can get lucky, that's probably it. There's just no way a plain mortal can stack the numbers in any way that's going to matter if you find yourself on the wrong end of an Elder vampire or a pack of Garou.

True Faith is maaaybe the exception, except I think that the fanaticism required for True Faith is as likely as not to get in the way of anything that a normal person would consider a "happy" life.

And that's kind of the point. That's the Horror of the World of Darkness. It's a dark urban fantasy kitchen sink if you're playing a splat, but it's a hellish place of existential horror if you're Average Joe.

Fate/destiny/Storyteller fiat simply matter way more than any individual decision a mortal/player can make.

[MyWifeIsScary]

It probably really isn't that much different from the real world. Vampires are few, Werewolves and mages are fewer. Your life expectancy isn't significantly different. your chance of coming across a supernatural and actually being personally effected by it is low, and probably something long-term harmless like an odd feeding.

-Have relatively wealthy parents
-Live in a stable, well run country that isn't very corrupt.
-live in a city that isn't built around cars
-Don't have much of a nightlife.
-don't get involved in crime.
-don't get a high-risk job, or work with fossil fuels.
-don't play RPGs, avoid computer games
-Use hand made toys only.
-avoid the news.
-Avoid brand loyalty and never use the same product too frequently, too much of one brand will make you a formor/drone/pervert.

[Amethyst]

All of these are good ideas 😊. Also find a powerful supernatural patron who values your existence (probably because they love you or someone in your family) and stick as close to them as possible. Alternatively, avoid Pentex products and stay as far away from the supernatural as you can.

[Newb95]

If you are a human then you can reasonably expect to live a normal life if you follow basic common sense and don't go around looking for trouble too much, now if you are a supernatural well, there is no good way to put it, your life will suck ass.

Lets start with werewolves and vampires, werewolves live in a tribalistic society where might makes right and that is constantly at war against a cosmic entity of decay and destruction who will inevitably win and wipe off life on earth, this thanks in no small part to the fact that werewolves are morons and prefer to war amongst eachoter instead of forming a common front against the threat, they are also prone to fly into a rage and murder everything unlucky enough to be near them but their lives are, thankfully, significally shorter than vampires who live in a similarly shitty society led by immortal monsters who will use and abuse neonates as they see fit before discarding them the moment they aren't usefull anymore, they are slave to the blood and forever shunned by the sun so most of the common pleasures humans (and most other splats) enjoy are forbidden to them, they can't taste food, will start burning the moment they poke their noses outside in the morning and they are also devoid of creativity (because they are quite simply dead inside), unlike werewolves they will live to endure centuries of misery and alienation before ultimately turning into soulless husks, this if some elder or other supernatural doesn't dust them before or if they don't take the easy way out and enjoy the sunrise one last time.

There are other splats that from what I heard, have it even worse, like demons and wraiths but I don't know much about them so can't say anything about but you get the gist, its a world of darkness afterall.

[Solomon Draak]

The core books don't equate - necessarily - True Faith with fanaticism, at the lower levels. I think that a person can have a single point, or mabye even two, without being a zealot.
Again, it's quite subjective.

[Kharnov]

Find me the character with True Faith where said True Faith is not one of the central defining aspects of their character. True Faith is a level of faith that is possessed by one-in-a-million, literally, or even less. Not every character with True Faith is a raving fundamentalist, but you cannot HAVE True Faith without that faith being one of the most important things in your life. That's what I mean by "fanaticism." And that is not really subjective.

What *is* subjective is how that True Faith will express itself. In the best case scenario, you might have a faith-healer preaching in a tent who managed to build a loving family while still devoting himself to his cause. Which is why I left myself wiggle-room in my original post with terms like "maybe" and "as likely as not." But in Vampire, our main examples of True Faith include Anatole, Ferox, and Moncada. Every single one of them is absolutely a fanatic, their religious beliefs being a central facet of their motivations, their entire unlives shaped around it.

You can't just grab a point or two of True Faith and then be a normal person with a normal 9-to-5 life. And that's not even mentioning how True Faith can actively draw the attention of potential supernatural threats: the "Last Cappadocian" was chosen for the Embrace in part because she had True Faith, though it does seem like she was given a choice in the matter.

PS I think this question makes more sense in the context of CoD/nWoD, where the existence of the supernatural is strongly implied to just be a shadowy undercurrent beneath a world that is just a bit grimmer and scarier than our own. But every game line in oWoD includes feuding demigods and an imminent Armageddon as base premises; a cabin in the woods isn't going to save you from the Apocalypse. And the argument "just avoid Pentex products" is a little bit like telling people in a food desert that they need to take responsibility for eating healthy; most people don't have a choice but to buy whatever they can afford, which probably means Pentex in a lot of cases since they go out of their way to make their products cheap and easily accessible. Assuming you even have the knowledge of how important it is to do so, being able to actively avoid Pentex products is basically a WoD example of privilege in action.

[RadioFreeDeath]

Live in the suburbs. Don't go clubbing. Don't camp.

Suburbs are too boring for most supernatural creatures. Not good feeding. Too domesticated for werewolves. You might get the occasional ghost.

[Solomon Draak]

I agree that True Faith is ( almost ) certainly one of the most central aspect of a character, if not the most important, but faith can manifest as a quiet and serene certainity rather than fire-and-brimston violence.

Anatole is a Malkavian. Nuff said.
Moncada is a sabbat mystic with 9 in his Path, and beside that, his True Faith is high ( 3 ).
Ferox is an amnesiac vampiric conglomerate, and his True Faith is a monstrous 9.


Alia...
True Faith 10 and she manages to be one of the most humane, optimistic, compassionate and non-judjemental characters of Wod.
She's quite sane and reasonably serene, overall.

[monteparnas]

All of these are good ideas 😊. Also find a powerful supernatural patron who values your existence (probably because they love you or someone in your family) and stick as close to them as possible. Alternatively, avoid Pentex products and stay as far away from the supernatural as you can.

A supernatural patron is more likely to bring you trouble than happiness. While they can give you power and some safety, they also drag you, willingly or not, into their shit. So they're your best protection against the mess they brought themselves to your life.

I agree that True Faith is ( almost ) certainly one of the most central aspect of a character, if not the most important, but faith can manifest as a quiet and serene certainity rather than fire-and-brimston violence.

True Faith means your religion matters so much for you to the point of you having supernatural powers.

So, to begin with, if you have True Faith you are not, by definition in WoD, a common mortal. You're just in the low tier of the supernatural.

Also, a happy life is a life without life threatening conflicts. If you never face the supernatural, having True Faith is moot. If you face them, then it doesn't matter how much this can protect you for now, you're now involved and it sucks. If anything finds out, you're in someone's threat list, if you kill all witnesses, you're a danger and probably traumatized. If you don't start to hunt them, you start to worry about them hunting you, and that's for the rest of your life.

Not to say that simply having True Faith, or Willpower 10 for that matter, you're more likely to interact with the supernatural in the first place, because those traits mean you're the kind of person that has an interest in understanding the mysteries of the world in whatever sense you understand them and unlikely to be affected by the effects that would keep you away and ignorant.

In the end, no trait or rule will give you a happy life in any setting, because traits and rules are meant to deal with conflicts, and conflicts are a source of pain. In the context of the WoD, a happy life is something that depends almost completely on luck. The same behaviors that keep you safe IRL keep you safe in WoD, and in bot cases this is far from a guarantee, but a good start. Other than that, just pray for trouble to not come your way.

Only redefining the question or happiness will another answer be possible. Some people do find an exciting, eventful life, even if dangerous, happy. And those people are more common in fictional settings. Living a long life is also another matter, as you can live traumatized, mentally unhealthy, but still survive to old age without succumbing to despair or becoming supernatural yourself.

[Kharnov]

I agree that True Faith is ( almost ) certainly one of the most central aspect of a character, if not the most important, but faith can manifest as a quiet and serene certainity rather than fire-and-brimston violence.

Anatole is a Malkavian. Nuff said.
Moncada is a sabbat mystic with 9 in his Path, and beside that, his True Faith is high ( 3 ).
Ferox is an amnesiac vampiric conglomerate, and his True Faith is a monstrous 9.


Alia...
True Faith 10 and she manages to be one of the most humane, optimistic, compassionate and non-judjemental characters of Wod.
She's quite sane and reasonably serene, overall.

Are you capable of responding to a post that I make without:

1) Ignoring 90% in order to pick at the one thing you think you can continue to argue with me about?

and

2) Ignoring the fact that I always include caveats that generally acknowledge the points you try to make about said exceptions?

Like, if you had bothered to quote me, it would have been obvious that I agree that *some* people with True Faith are capable of living a happy life, since I specifically included a made-up example of what that might look like.

Now, addressing the example you've provided, I will begin with the question "who is Alia?" Not familiar with that particular character. Secondly, it's perhaps time to start talking a bit about that subjectivity thing you've brought up a few times. Being "serene" does not necessarily mean "happy." Even being "content" isn't necessarily the same thing as "happy." Especially if we are trying to define "happiness" of the sort that you would find among *normal people.*

Using the stereotypical example of the isolated monk living in some hermit temple far away from the rest of humanity, living a life of simple subsistence and detached meditation, is that what you would call a "happy" person? Are they happy, or are they just ambivalent and detached? I'm pretty sure that kind of point is up for debate, so simply going "this person with True Faith seems at peace" is a bit of a cop-out as far as I'm concerned.

Which doesn't even get into what monteparnas said about True Faith automatically disqualifying them from being a "normal" person, which seems to mostly be what you want to talk about here.

[Solomon Draak]

Are you capable of responding to a post that I make without:

No.

In the end, no trait or rule will give you a happy life in any setting, because traits and rules are meant to deal with conflicts, and conflicts are a source of pain.

This is a wise answer, Monteparnas. A satisfactory one too.
Probably, the only way to dodge the pain of life is to avoid conflic when you can.

[CTPhipps]

Let's dial it back everyone and remain polite.

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

How do you live long and happily in the WoD? Don't get the attention of the ST or the players.