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  • #16
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    ITS AT THE BOTTOM OF EVERY PAGE.
    Yeah, I don't like it either.

    And I think you're selling COG short. Using mirrors to travel to other worlds sounds bad ass, as do face stealing vampires (some Tzimisce are taking notes).

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    • #17
      I... am really not happy with this sizable copyright thing on the bottom of a pdf I dropped 40+ dollars on after money conversion. It routinely cuts through the art, it cuts through the cover, it's huge, it's on every page (there are any number of watermarked pdfs done better than this all across gaming). I am not even fully diving into the actual content yet and that this pdf is.. not even bookmarked, has this distorting watermark thing, is definitely really short for its price point, and looks to involve a lot of white space as far as the pages that do have text, it's not great. The formatting makes it feel like there's not much content per page, on top of everything else.

      It's going to take me a while to actually have an opinion on the actual content. I am really not happy with how Renegade seems to have decided to approach publishing and pricing their V5 pdfs, certainly if this is any example.

      I've been following along with V5 in some hope that there will be a book that eventually brings me over into it (the OPP stuff wasn't bad, for what it's worth), but I think I'm done after the player's guide at this point if this is how the structuring is going to go.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by MarkK View Post
        I... am really not happy with this sizable copyright thing on the bottom of a pdf I dropped 40+ dollars on after money conversion. It routinely cuts through the art, it cuts through the cover, it's huge, it's on every page (there are any number of watermarked pdfs done better than this all across gaming). I am not even fully diving into the actual content yet and that this pdf is.. not even bookmarked, has this distorting watermark thing, is definitely really short for its price point, and looks to involve a lot of white space as far as the pages that do have text, it's not great. The formatting makes it feel like there's not much content per page, on top of everything else.

        It's going to take me a while to actually have an opinion on the actual content. I am really not happy with how Renegade seems to have decided to approach publishing and pricing their V5 pdfs, certainly if this is any example.

        I've been following along with V5 in some hope that there will be a book that eventually brings me over into it (the OPP stuff wasn't bad, for what it's worth), but I think I'm done after the player's guide at this point if this is how the structuring is going to go.
        Frankly, I think this warrants a letter to the good people at Renegade that they should remove this and give us unmarked copies or give us a refund.

        I don't need to be reminded Piracy is WrongTM on EVERY page.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

          Frankly, I think this warrants a letter to the good people at Renegade that they should remove this and give us unmarked copies or give us a refund.

          I don't need to be reminded Piracy is WrongTM on EVERY page.
          I agree and will sign any petition for this cause.

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          • #20
            I hope they don't they don't downplay the brutal truth the 2nd inquisitions attempt to annihilate the vampire race is a net positive. Moral ambiguities are neat but the mean right wing Catholic Church isn't an ongoing existential threat on a personal and species scale.
            Last edited by Ragged Robin; 03-18-2022, 08:02 AM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post
              I hope they don't they don't downplay the brutal truth the 2nd inquisitions attempt to annihilate the vampire race is a net positive. Moral ambiguities are neat but the the night mean right wing Catholic Church isn't an ongoing existential threat on a personal and species scale.
              This is very much a book that doesn't attempt to argue the ends justify the means.

              It absolutely establishes the Second Inquisition are scum who murder, torture, kidnap, and any good they do is incidental to the abuses they heap on mortals as well as vampires who don't want to be what they are. Every page drips in disdain and disgust.

              They're not cartoons but if I had to say, "Isn't the Technocracy right for wanting to wipe the supernatural out?" questionm this book goes, "Their goals don't matter because WHAT THEY'RE DOING is unconscionable."

              So, no, it's a group other hunters tend to think of as scummy.
              Last edited by CTPhipps; 03-17-2022, 07:48 PM.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                This is very much a book that doesn't attempt to argue the ends justify the means.

                It absolutely establishes the Second Inquisition are scum who murder, torture, kidnap, and any good they do is incidental to the abuses they heap on mortals as well as vampires who don't want to be what they are. Every page drips in disdain and disgust.

                They're not cartoons but if I had to say, "Isn't the Technocracy right for wanting to wipe the supernatural out?" questionm this book goes, "Their goals don't matter because WHAT THEY'RE DOING is unconscionable."

                So, no, it's a group other hunters tend to think of as scummy.
                And let's not forget good old-fashioned abject hypocrisy...

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                  So, no, it's a group other hunters tend to think of as scummy.
                  I read somewhere the SI doesn't like the imbued, and those hunters do not often work with the S.I. Which is interesting.

                  That said, the S.I. is not worse to people than the Sabbat. And to a large degree the S.I. has taken the narrative position the Sabbat once occupied; unplayable antagonists who harass and hunt Camarilla society, and the best protection from them is to lick the prince's boots. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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                  • #24
                    Imma wait till it comes out on DTRPG and maybe buy it then.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

                      I read somewhere the SI doesn't like the imbued, and those hunters do not often work with the S.I. Which is interesting.

                      That said, the S.I. is not worse to people than the Sabbat. And to a large degree the S.I. has taken the narrative position the Sabbat once occupied; unplayable antagonists who harass and hunt Camarilla society, and the best protection from them is to lick the prince's boots. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
                      I mean, I wish this had been the case but the Sabbat STILL occupy this role.

                      *sad trombone*


                      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                      • #26
                        Feh. There are fan hacks of V5 Sabbat and White Wolf made them a playable sect as far back as 2nd edition. In V5 they are diminished from what they were, but the Sabbat are not unplayable antagonists. For the moment at least, the SI are unplayable antagonists.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
                          Feh. There are fan hacks of V5 Sabbat and White Wolf made them a playable sect as far back as 2nd edition. In V5 they are diminished from what they were, but the Sabbat are not unplayable antagonists. For the moment at least, the SI are unplayable antagonists.
                          Hacking them into playable will be a piece of cake. Despite the past, they indeed doubled down the canonical Sabbat into this role.

                          Also, there's no Imbued, the SI are going to be antagonists for other hunters, and comparing them to the Sabbat in terms of how they treat humanity kind of shows how low they are.

                          On the pdf structure... I guess if they don't redo things, this will be the book even people that bought it will also download the illegal copy to have an actually good pdf...


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                          • #28
                            I mean, the copyright stamp is outright disfiguring this book.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                            • #29
                              Some more points:

                              1. The Second Inquisition makes use of Thin Bloods and some actual vampires who they have turned. Mostly self-hating vampires who the SI says they're working on protecting humanity and/or trying to find a cure. The Second Inquisition very often uses and disposes of these vampires or puts them in the experimentation room.

                              2. There is one group of heretical Inquisitors that have a vampire they feed blood bags and believe they've redeemed--she's feeding on mortals every now and then.

                              3. Inquisitors who work with Thin Bloods, let alone regular vampires, have severe morale problems as they either humanize vampires (which causes severe PTSD or at least questioning) or to double down on their hatred.

                              4. We get a sample Hunter's Cell that is made of equal parts idiots, psychopaths, and some genuinely good people. One hacker thinks he can get vampires to work with him as an equal despite not wanting to be Embraced for example. Another guy is a pyromaniac who is ectastic he can burn people alive now.

                              5. The SI is experimenting with biological weapons that make humans poisonous to vampires. The results are...well, they aren't good for the humans involved but they've been deployed in limited amounts.

                              6. Some ex-ghouls are Inquisitors and are basically insane to the man but they are excellent sources of intel. No mention of how they deal with the aging issue. I get the impression the ones too old to survive without Kindred blood are just fucked.

                              7. A group of Anarchs has been freeing ghouls of their slavery and the SI has been following them and recruiting the ones they use Dominate and Presence to fix. This is delightfully assholish. (Page 17)

                              8. The SI has a few captured Tzimisce monsters (implied to be a Vodzd and Tzimisce wights) that they have been known to leave in Elysiums and unleash like it was fucking Jurassic Park. They think the terror effect is worth any collateral damage. (Page 49)

                              No. 8 is just fucking silly for establishing the SI is EVIL.

                              9. The SI has the Enochian Sarcophogus that Beckett and company found (page 84)

                              10. The SI target minority neighborhoods they've identified vampires in and gentrify them. Whicg they use to amke a bunch of money too.

                              11. Similarly, the SI has taken to dealing drugs and arms. This is not for any vampire related reason, just to make more money for the vampire hunting. They have endless amounts of police evidence and guns after all.

                              12. The SI makes ample use of torture and there's a whole section on it. The SI's Interrogators notably also torture humans both in the service and not in the service of Kindred. "Interrogators" actually make other SI sick.

                              I assume this is partially why the book has a "content warning."

                              13. The Young Bloods Motorcycle Gang/Hunters was wiped out by the cartels except for a handful of them went to other cities and are now working for the SI. They help the SI make money selling drugs in exchange for blood (pg 51)


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                              • #30
                                Sounds like the SI is basically the original Inquisition combined with the worst of dictatorship intelligence agencies.

                                It's interesting that they are heavily relying on provoking fights between vampires rather than killing vampires directly. It seems to be an effort to walk back something the earlier stuff was establishing: a world where the masquerade was so suffocating that it's hard to imagine vampires doing anything except being farmers because anything else was near instant death. Vampire has never been D&D, but it did have elements of the traditional dungeon crawling adventures once upon a time. This edition completely purged those elements. Now it seems to be bringing them back a little, even if it's because the SI is understaffed and therefore must provoke vampires into raiding each other's homes.

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