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All the clans have committed heinous acts, yet the tremere are the most hated

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  • Spencer from The Hills
    replied
    Originally posted by Thoth View Post
    Sadly, the various writers kept messing with the Tremere into the horrid 5th edition nonsense for the clan.
    They lost their headquarters, leading council and ability to blood bond, then a lot of them ditched their organisations. The only metaplot they're leading now is their own. There's no evidence to speak of that makes them (deliberately) responsible for the Second Inquisition, the Beckoning, the Sabbat's rapture, the Anarch uprising or the entry of the Banu Haqim and Lasombra into the Camarilla.
    Last edited by Spencer from The Hills; 03-26-2022, 11:14 AM.

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  • Hello
    replied
    Ignore this, wrote the same comment and dont know how to delete.
    Last edited by Hello; 03-26-2022, 11:18 AM.

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  • Hello
    replied
    Originally posted by Joanna_Crone View Post
    A homunculus will not save you from a hellfire missile, nor from incendiaries. Running fast...probably won't either, but it'll at least give you a shot.

    [/FONT]
    Probably actual wizards. The Tremere get Thaumaturgy; Mages are Mages.
    Alternately, high-tech humans.
    Alternately, both.
    I don't see your point here, no one is going to see a missle coming, so no one will get the chance to run, it does not matter if you're a tremere, gangrel, brujah, toreador, or whatever other clan, you're, dead. Plus if you're dumb enough to get targeted by weapons like those, than maybe you deserve to get blasted to bits.

    Technology wouldn't matter because, if I remember correctly there are rituals for that, plus tremere have counter magic.

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  • babi_gog
    replied
    Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
    The Tremere were "usurpers", meaning they are not descended from an Antedeluvian. The clan is around 1200 years old. Seems old to us, but the other clans date back to 8000 years or more. There are still plenty of elders around who remember a time when there weren't any Tremere at all.
    One point of information, Clan Tremere is about 800 years old. They became vampires in the 1200's

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  • Joanna_Crone
    replied
    Originally posted by Hello View Post
    IDK, I would rather know how to make an homonculus than run really fast.
    A homunculus will not save you from a hellfire missile, nor from incendiaries. Running fast...probably won't either, but it'll at least give you a shot.

    Originally posted by Hello View Post
    Also vienna makes no sense, how did they get past all of the security?

    Probably actual wizards. The Tremere get Thaumaturgy; Mages are Mages.
    Alternately, high-tech humans.
    Alternately, both.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kharnov
    replied
    Originally posted by Hello View Post
    IDK, I would rather know how to make an homonculus than run really fast. Also vienna makes no sense, how did they get past all of the security?
    To be clear, I'm not trying to dunk on the Tremere here, I am trying to be sympathetic. I am pointing out that constantly being put in the centre of the metaplot has often not worked out for them. Being the explanation for a variety of plot developments is a lot of why everyone *hates* them, like when they cursed the Banu Haqim. Or has ended up putting them in the line of fire for some very ugly beatdowns, like the burning of the Vienna Chantry.

    As for the how, there's a grocery list of possible explanations. The Technocracy did it. The Arcanum helped. A traitor on the inside, with a grocery list of possible explanations for *that*. How it happened isn't really the point. The point is that is the sort of thing that being the most "special" Clan in the metaplot gets you. It sucks a lot of the time.

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  • Hello
    replied
    Originally posted by Kharnov View Post
    I think most Clans are pretty happy not being as "special" as the Tremere.

    *casts a gaze towards the smoldering ruins of the Vienna Chantry*

    Being the favourite chew-toy of the metaplot doesn't tend to be a fun spot.

    IDK, I would rather know how to make an homonculus than run really fast. Also vienna makes no sense, how did they get past all of the security?

    Leave a comment:


  • Kharnov
    replied
    I think most Clans are pretty happy not being as "special" as the Tremere.

    *casts a gaze towards the smoldering ruins of the Vienna Chantry*

    Being the favourite chew-toy of the metaplot doesn't tend to be a fun spot.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hello
    replied
    Originally posted by Sergeant Brother View Post
    It’s highly probable that the Tremere are the single Clan with the greatest effect on the metaplot.
    Shhhh, don't tell that to the other clans, they want to feel special.

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  • Sergeant Brother
    replied
    Originally posted by Hello View Post

    Its kind of funny, because that means the tremere probably are the greatest contributor to the metaplot.
    It’s highly probable that the Tremere are the single Clan with the greatest effect on the metaplot.

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  • Hello
    replied
    Originally posted by Thoth View Post
    Originally the Tremere were just the vampire wizard clan, no more, no less.

    Alternatively, the issue could be that the writers kept using the Tremere as an all-purpose plot device whenever new lore had to be back filled or a new situation had to be explained.

    Want to introduce the assamites, but need them restricted, just add Tremere.
    Want to rewrite the assamite clan weakness, just add Tremere
    Want to explain the Salubri history, just add Tremere.
    Want a massive kindred war during Dark Ages, just add Tremere.
    Want to add Gargoyles, just add Tremere.
    Need a reason why the Kuei-Jin can't leave San Francisco, just add Tremere.
    Need a built-in plot point to crash that San Franscisco containment, just add corrupt Tremere.

    The writers eventually realized they couldn't use the Tremere for revising/explaining older lore, so they did the exact same thing with the Baali. Sadly, the various writers kept messing with the Tremere into the horrid 5th edition nonsense for the clan.

    So if I had to guess why people "hate" the Tremere, it would be due to the fact that as a starter ST the Tremere complicate the hell out of the timeline. As a Player, Thaumaturgy adds a whole hell of a lot of system bloat that you have to figure out, not to mention the ST has to keep track of power creep. Then lastly when in game since many people don't bother absorb all the bloated mechanics and messed up back story, they get upstaged at a critical moment by someone who did.

    Yeah it kind of odd that the tremere are used to add flavor to many clans.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hello
    replied
    Originally posted by Sergeant Brother View Post
    All Clans do horrible things, but the Tremere were highly successful and defeated many other factions. If somebody picks a fight with you and wins, you’ll hate them more than somebody who picked a fight with your and lost to you.

    Though, I do think that the setting creators went way overboard with the factions that hate the Tremere and the ones that the Tremere had to fight. Mages from the Order or Hermes, Tzimisce, Nosferatu, Gangrel, their own Gargoyle creations, Assamites. It’s too much, it just seems silly.

    I think I would have left out the Gangrel and Nosferatu. Having a conflict with them was just random and pointless. Then I would not have the Gargoyles revolt, keep them as servants aside from a few who broke free from Tremere domination.
    Its kind of funny, because that means the tremere probably are the greatest contributor to the metaplot.

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  • Reasor
    replied
    Originally posted by Haquim View Post
    As a faction the Tremere predate the WHOLE OF VtM. Tremere the magus was actually one of the main villains played by the creator of VtM. That’s why they are so central in the game background, and especially in its earlier editions
    True, their fictional history goes back to the old Ars Magica RPG.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thoth
    replied
    Originally the Tremere were just the vampire wizard clan, no more, no less.

    Alternatively, the issue could be that the writers kept using the Tremere as an all-purpose plot device whenever new lore had to be back filled or a new situation had to be explained.

    Want to introduce the assamites, but need them restricted, just add Tremere.
    Want to rewrite the assamite clan weakness, just add Tremere
    Want to explain the Salubri history, just add Tremere.
    Want a massive kindred war during Dark Ages, just add Tremere.
    Want to add Gargoyles, just add Tremere.
    Need a reason why the Kuei-Jin can't leave San Francisco, just add Tremere.
    Need a built-in plot point to crash that San Franscisco containment, just add corrupt Tremere.

    The writers eventually realized they couldn't use the Tremere for revising/explaining older lore, so they did the exact same thing with the Baali. Sadly, the various writers kept messing with the Tremere into the horrid 5th edition nonsense for the clan.

    So if I had to guess why people "hate" the Tremere, it would be due to the fact that as a starter ST the Tremere complicate the hell out of the timeline. As a Player, Thaumaturgy adds a whole hell of a lot of system bloat that you have to figure out, not to mention the ST has to keep track of power creep. Then lastly when in game since many people don't bother absorb all the bloated mechanics and messed up back story, they get upstaged at a critical moment by someone who did.

    Leave a comment:


  • Haquim
    replied
    As a faction the Tremere predate the WHOLE OF VtM. Tremere the magus was actually one of the main villains played by the creator of VtM. That’s why they are so central in the game background, and especially in its earlier editions

    Leave a comment:

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