Alternative Banes: Player's Guide Speculation

[Karos]

TL;DR - What're your suggestions for alternative clan banes?

A key announcement relating to the Players Guide due out this summer was the inclusion of alternative banes for use by player characters. Whilst I'm still not entirely sold on the idea of using several different banes for the same clan in a single chronicle, the ability to pick a bane that suits the chronicle in question is appealing.

To that end what sort of banes do you think we might see for various clans?

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Banu-Haqim: The inclusion of some of their old banes seems like an idea. The Warrior and Sorcerer banes in particular could be interesting to convert.

Brujah: Something that makes them reckless would be my first suggestion, but that starts to stray into Ravnos territory. Still, something that requires them to roll a check with a bane-severity penalty to not jump immediately into action.

Gangrel: Not sure what to change on this one, the bestial features have always been quite fitting.

Hecata: I don't think the core Hecata really need a rework, their bane is quite solid. Some work on implementing the old bloodline banes might be nice. Nagarja reduce the amount of hunger slaked by anything but flesh by an amount equal to bane-severity; Lamiae afflict any mortal they feed on with plague-like symptoms for a number of nights/weeks equal to bane severity.

Lasombra: Anything that ameliorates their current tripple-bane is good in my book. I think focussing on the mirrors or the capture of voice or image.

Malkavian: Perhaps something tied to their visions? When exposed to certain stimuli perhaps they're bombarded by visions reducing rolls by bane-severity?

Nosferatu: Something that accounts for the appearance by making them unnerving for others perhaps?

Ravnos: Certainly wouldn't want to restore their old bane or give options for that. Their new one is quite fitting, given the destruction of their Antediluvian.

Salubri: Could give an option for their old non-consenting bane?

Settite: ???

Toreador: A bane that represents their flighty nature could be interesting, making it hard to concentrate on anything but the most pleasing or indulgent option.

Tremere: Really not sure for this one, I almost don't want to change it as the metaplot development here has been quite interesting. Possibly an option to include their old bane would be nice, but keying that to bane-severity could be tricky unless high bane-severity Tremere are going to risk jumping to very strong bonds from one drink.

Tzimisce: ???

Ventrue: ???

[CajunKhan]

For Gangrel, I think something close to the Lasombra weakness might work for them. They are so tied to the animal world, that technology doesn't work for them easily.

For Lasombra, the Setite weakness could work. They are shadows, so sunlight banishes them even harder than it does most vamps.

For Tzims: they need to make a willpower or resolve+something roll to enter a home uninvited.

For Ventrue, something like the current Toreador weakness, but tied to orderlyness rather than beauty.

For Brujah, switch their clan weakness with their clan compulsion.

[SetiteFriend]

Banu-Haqim: The inclusion of some of their old banes seems like an idea. The Warrior and Sorcerer banes in particular could be interesting to convert.

I believe Outstar said in a segment of WoD news last week that they are specifically alternative banes, that aren't taken from any previous book. But who knows lol.

Hecata: I don't think the core Hecata really need a rework, their bane is quite solid. Some work on implementing the old bloodline banes might be nice. Nagarja reduce the amount of hunger slaked by anything but flesh by an amount equal to bane-severity; Lamiae afflict any mortal they feed on with plague-like symptoms for a number of nights/weeks equal to bane severity.

I don't think they'd do that, besides the above reason, with Forbidden Religions there are separate flaws for all the bloodlines. Repulsive for Samedi/Harbingers, Ugly/Repulsive/Obvious Predator for Cappadocian, Organovore for Nagaraja, Plaguebringer for Lamia.

Lasombra: Anything that ameliorates their current tripple-bane is good in my book. I think focussing on the mirrors or the capture of voice or image.

Their bane should already be focused on things that capture the image (Cameras/Microphones/Touchscreens/Movement sensors) of the Lasombra already, it just often gets played as no tech works.

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Actual ideas

Salubri: The third eye only opens after a Bestial Failure or during a Compulsion, covering it giving penalties equal to your Bane Severity (I'd keep the cry blood thing when it is used as well). Or something around this idea really, that the eye isn't always there and only opens on occasion.

Tremere: Maybe they need to drink blood of other clans an additional number of times before being able to learn a new discipline? I feel this would just be incentivize never learning anything out of clan, which is already hard considering the XP costs.

Nosferatu: Maybe something around the idea of progressively getting uglier? Increasing penalties would be a bit broken though.

Ravnos: I just want a Bane that doesn't imply Zappy is dead, I like my Antediluvians alive (un-live?) and ominously sleeping. However I quite like they being forced to wander, so maybe a willpower alternative?

Don't have any idea for the rest.

[Vilenecromancer]

Other then adding old banes in, which they better do or I won't be buying yet another book, there's really only a few ideas that can work.

The only one I really want to see is Ravnos as like you said, "Certainly wouldn't want to restore their old bane or give options for that."

However, their current bane only works in the modern setting. Most likely the alternative banes will allow for play across time periods or settings. This means Ravnos will have to get another make over to work in such scenarios, same with Salubri.

For Ravnos, they'll most likely make the effect lower their willpower if they sleep in the same place twice over a short period. It's lazy, cause everyone else already thought of it, but if it works.

Salubri however, well that's interesting. Their old bane is too similar to a specialized Ventrue, so how theyll handle that is beyond me. Especially if you want to include bane severity, which v5 does want to do. Maybe some kind of obsession, like the watchers? Perhaps an inversion of the baali bane, attracted to symbols of faith? Who knows?

[omenseer]

I believe Outstar said in a segment of WoD news last week that they are specifically alternative banes, that aren't taken from any previous book. But who knows lol.



I don't think they'd do that, besides the above reason, with Forbidden Religions there are separate flaws for all the bloodlines. Repulsive for Samedi/Harbingers, Ugly/Repulsive/Obvious Predator for Cappadocian, Organovore for Nagaraja, Plaguebringer for Lamia.



Their bane should already be focused on things that capture the image (Cameras/Microphones/Touchscreens/Movement sensors) of the Lasombra already, it just often gets played as no tech works.

---

Actual ideas

Salubri: The third eye only opens after a Bestial Failure or during a Compulsion, covering it giving penalties equal to your Bane Severity (I'd keep the cry blood thing when it is used as well). Or something around this idea really, that the eye isn't always there and only opens on occasion.

Tremere: Maybe they need to drink blood of other clans an additional number of times before being able to learn a new discipline? I feel this would just be incentivize never learning anything out of clan, which is already hard considering the XP costs.

Nosferatu: Maybe something around the idea of progressively getting uglier? Increasing penalties would be a bit broken though.

Ravnos: I just want a Bane that doesn't imply Zappy is dead, I like my Antediluvians alive (un-live?) and ominously sleeping. However I quite like they being forced to wander, so maybe a willpower alternative?

Don't have any idea for the rest.

Where in Forbidden Religions are separate flaws for the bloodlines?

[SetiteFriend]

Where in Forbidden Religions are separate flaws for the bloodlines?

Forbidden Religions added the last missing flaw for representing the old bane.

Repulsive for Samedi/Harbingers - Which is in the Corebook
Ugly/Repulsive/Obvious Predator for Cappadocians - Which is in the Corebook
Organovore for Nagaraja - Which is in the Corebook
Plaguebringer for Lamia- Which was the one missing, that was added there, in Forbidden Religions

[omenseer]

Forbidden Religions added the last missing flaw for representing the old bane.

Repulsive for Samedi/Harbingers - Which is in the Corebook
Ugly/Repulsive/Obvious Predator for Cappadocians - Which is in the Corebook
Organovore for Nagaraja - Which is in the Corebook
Plaguebringer for Lamia- Which was the one missing, that was added there, in Forbidden Religions

Ahh, not a specific sidebar mentioning this then.

[Vilenecromancer]

Forbidden Religions added the last missing flaw for representing the old bane.

Repulsive for Samedi/Harbingers - Which is in the Corebook
Ugly/Repulsive/Obvious Predator for Cappadocians - Which is in the Corebook
Organovore for Nagaraja - Which is in the Corebook
Plaguebringer for Lamia- Which was the one missing, that was added there, in Forbidden Religions

Problem with this is that in v5, banes have to gave some effect relating to bane severity.

[adambeyoncelowe]

It may also be an attempt to rejig and rebalance existing Banes so that they are all on par. They are closer than before, but still not quite level (though these things are super subjective).

The PG is going to be my most anticipated release, since my anticipation for Sabbat was already scuppered early on. But if they get this right, it could be a good platform to tweak all the niggling things that weren't quite right and were rushed for GenCon. But they may not want to introduce any rules updates, so who knows?

There was a similar issue with WFRP4e, where they rushed it out to meet a deadline and changed developers several times. The book is gorgeous and mostly works, but when you play it, you realise there are a few bugs that appear or places where the RAI doesn't match the final wording due to editing mistakes and changing visions for the game.

Cubicle 7 initially seemed reluctant to issue too much errata (understandable), so they instructed devs to give informal rulings that made the RAW work (even if you had to squint to make them make sense). Hence, a 100-page Unofficial FAQ was born, and which I now manage for fans.

But then they released Up in Arms recently (a splatbook for the Warrior Class), and offered some neat fixes for some of the more complained about elements (e.g., Advantage, which I loved, but really love now it's a pooled resource for the whole group). And that's gone down really well with most players I've seen.

So I could see a PG that makes some minor tweaks and smoothes out the creases, while still looking mostly the same, being really popular for Paradox/Renegade.