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Is there a mechanism for changing discipline power options?

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  • Is there a mechanism for changing discipline power options?

    Like say you pick wolfform, and decide earth-meld would be more useful, but you're already at Protean 5. Is there a mechanism for switching?

  • #2
    Nope, you are stuck with whatever you chose, another questionable V5 design choice.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Newb95 View Post
      Nope, you are stuck with whatever you chose, another questionable V5 design choice.
      Did revised or V20 have that option?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by omenseer View Post
        Did revised or V20 have that option?
        There wasn't really a need to 'swap' disciplines in prior editions, you simply had to pay extra XP to buy additional discipline powers. (Typically in the form of various amalgams that had fixed XP costs.)

        Originally posted by CajunKhan View Post
        Like say you pick wolfform, and decide earth-meld would be more useful, but you're already at Protean 5. Is there a mechanism for switching?
        There's nothing in the corebook, but then V5 is rather less-focussed on players solving their problems by throwing disciplines at them. As for switching them out, as an ST I'd probably allow it. I'd probably make it take a while, then require a process similar to learning new disciplines: blood of the right resonance, a suitable teacher or instruction, and time. (Depending on the chronicle an XP costs also seems appropriate so maybe something like 5xp less than the level would normally be, swapping a 1st-dot power costs nothing, 2nd-dot 5xp, etc.)



        STV Author - Guide to the Sabbat
        Current Project(s): Tales from the Fronts - A Guide to the Gehenna War

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        • #5
          I wouldn't require XP, as it would mean some XP is effectively wasted, as it doesn't actually increase your power.

          I do agree that it shouldn't be a trivial matter. Honestly a Dyscrasia or Diablerie, whichever they prefer, would be my preferred option. That, or a really intense character experience, such as being buried alive for changing to Earth Meld, being tortured with Vicissitude and changing to use it, really depends on the power.

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          • #6
            To answer the question of the thread, like everyone else said, no. No such official rule exists as of this moment. If we're gonna get such a rule, it'll be the upcoming Player's Guide. If it isn't there, then there will likely never be an official rule.

            Originally posted by omenseer View Post
            Did revised or V20 have that option?
            Technically not for levels 1 to 5, as the powers were static. Powers 6+ were slightly different. Whenever you gained a level of 6 or higher in the discipline you got a free power, AND could spend additional EXP to gain more powers, effectively repurchasing the level just for the power. So no, V20 didn't have this option, but it did allow much wider power capabilities.

            Originally posted by SetiteFriend View Post
            I do agree that it shouldn't be a trivial matter. Honestly a Dyscrasia or Diablerie, whichever they prefer, would be my preferred option. That, or a really intense character experience, such as being buried alive for changing to Earth Meld, being tortured with Vicissitude and changing to use it, really depends on the power.
            I agree with this 100%. In v5, it feels like disciplines have become much more related to the self and the like. As an ST, I'd rule it that if the character experienced something that cause them to evolve as an individual, then I'd allow them switch powers around.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by SetiteFriend View Post
              I wouldn't require XP, as it would mean some XP is effectively wasted, as it doesn't actually increase your power.
              I think it very much depends on the chronicle you're playing. Being able to switch discipline powers increases versatility and I think that should have some cost so players don't consider it lightly. (Especially when there are loresheets that let you use alternative discipline powers once that cost XP.)

              I do agree that it shouldn't be a trivial matter. Honestly, a Dyscrasia or Diablerie, whichever they prefer, would be my preferred option.
              A dyscracia seems an interesting choice, I don't think I'd require a diablerie unless the player was changing several disciplines, or maybe one that isn't inherent to their clan?

              That, or a really intense character experience, such as being buried alive for changing to Earth Meld, being tortured with Vicissitude and changing to use it, really depends on the power.
              An intense experience is interesting with the idea of resonance influencing disciplines. I feel that undergoing experiences that create the right resonances would be especially interesting in the context of a blood-cult. You could develop various rites or styles of meditation and maybe even dictate that certain manifestations of key disciplines are divine.


              STV Author - Guide to the Sabbat
              Current Project(s): Tales from the Fronts - A Guide to the Gehenna War

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              • #8
                I think it very much depends on the chronicle you're playing. Being able to switch discipline powers increases versatility and I think that should have some cost so players don't consider it lightly. (Especially when there are loresheets that let you use alternative discipline powers once that cost XP.)
                If they could switch back without paying more XP, then yes. It's more that I don't want it to be simply a tax on bad player choices. If they picked a power they didn't like, I wouldn't have their character be behind all others for it. Similar to how you never permanently lose Advantages you paid for. If you pay 15 XP for power A, than 10 XP for a switch to power B, you are at the same level as if you had just spent 15 XP on power B at the start, but you have now spent 25 XP.
                Originally posted by Karos View Post
                A dyscracia seems an interesting choice, I don't think I'd require a diablerie unless the player was changing several disciplines, or maybe one that isn't inherent to their clan?
                It's not that I would require it, but that it would be an option, in place of a Dyscrasia. Essentially an option for an intense experience.
                An intense experience is interesting with the idea of resonance influencing disciplines. I feel that undergoing experiences that create the right resonances would be especially interesting in the context of a blood-cult. You could develop various rites or styles of meditation and maybe even dictate that certain manifestations of key disciplines are divine.
                A ceremonial heart cutout for the Setites would be interesting.

                This does have a lot of potential and I will certainly use if it ever comes up.

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                • #9
                  Actually, there was something like that in Revised. in Blood-Dimmed Tides. it was mentioned that Gangrel Mariners would have some of their Protean powers change over time, as Mariners usually did not start out that way. I no longer have the book, but if it was possible for a sub-group of Kindred to slowly adapt Discipline powers then it stands to reason that others could to. I don't have the book any more, so I can't remember what the mechanics about the change were. Personally, I always felt that Elders had to ability to create different level 1-5 powers, and not just for those 6+, but something was preventing them to spread them throughout the population, until Fifth edition.


                  THWarted

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                  • #10
                    While not official, I really like the idea of allowing players to just buy multiple Discipline powers at the same level. I haven’t run V5 yet, but if I were to do so, I think that would be my house rule.

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                    • #11
                      I'd like to at least return the idea that there are little bonuses one can buy, essentially 1/2 dots, to give little powers that aren't powerful enough to be worth a full dot. Protean used to be especially prone to that. This idea that you absolutely positively have to use one of five slots for even the most minor power is suffocatingly harsh.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sergeant Brother View Post
                        While not official, I really like the idea of allowing players to just buy multiple Discipline powers at the same level. I haven’t run V5 yet, but if I were to do so, I think that would be my house rule.
                        Literally every game I have been in houseruled that you could buy every power you had xp and discipline level for, this rule is only there to limit your options in my opinion.

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                        • #13
                          I'd just break the 'one power per dot' thing. Especially as, IIRC, the CRB suggests this is only 'usually' the case (rather than 'always').

                          A relatively strict way to do that would be to allow Kindred who max out a Discipline (gain their fifth dot) to then go back and buy additional lower level powers.

                          Another is to say you can buy additional powers of every dot below your current one. So if you're at Protean 2, you can buy multiple Protean 1 powers. That means you'll only ever have one level 5 power, but that seems appropriate.

                          A third option would be to limit it by Blood Potency. Maybe the limit per dot is equal to your BP, or your Discipline dice bonus, or some other number derived from the power of your blood.

                          In V5, you don't get heaps of XP, so it would be hard to abuse multiple powers per dot unless you house rule XP gain too.

                          I am also with those who think that there shouldn't be trap choices. If a player picks the wrong Discipline power and just wants to change it, they can do. I do the same with other traits, and in other games, provided the player comes to me as soon as they spot the mistake and can explain why this doesn't fit the character they want to play.

                          I would be more lenient with someone who doesn't have system mastery than someone who's a munchkin and has realised they can exploit a loophole, partly because not everyone plans out their future advancement. I still remember the days of D&D3.5 when that sort of forward-thinking was almost a requirement, and I remember the anguish some players experienced deciding things now that would impact their character multiple levels down the line. If I can spare my players that drama, I will!


                          Writer, publisher, performer
                          Mostly he/his, sometimes she/her IRL https://adam-lowe.com

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