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Why no love for Sadhana?

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  • Hello
    started a topic Why no love for Sadhana?

    Why no love for Sadhana?

    People are out here talking about how op or how much of an xp sink thaumaturgy is, yet no one ever seems to talk about sadhana. Like sure I wont be able throw a fireball or call down a lightning strike, but there's still a lot of unique stuff.

    Path of Karma can manipulate reincarnation and fate, its honestly the coolest path. Path of blood nectar allows your ghouls to potentially use up to 5 dots of one of your chosen disciplines, sure they can only use it once for every blood point put in, but its well worth it when your in an emergency. These are the unique paths. The others are spirit manipulation, movement of mind, conjuring, e.t.c

    Sure there's a thaumaturgy ritual for almost anything, but the rituals that sadhana has cant even be compared to thaumaturgy.

    Level 1) Armor of diamond serenity- Immune to frenzy and reduces difficulty of will power for a night.

    Level 2) Ashes of Agnis curse- Extinguishes 100 square feet of flame for each dose of as used

    Level 3) Destinys call- Allows you to summon anyone who meets three conditions you set.

    Level 5) Transcendentally Satisfying Body-Filling- You take over a mortals body while your own physical body dissapears.

    It may not be as powerful as thaumaturgy, but it is insanely useful, especially the level 5 ritual.

    Why don't more people talk about this?
    Last edited by Hello; 03-30-2022, 04:46 PM.

  • MyWifeIsScary
    replied
    Yeah that number 5 is cool and all but the Tremere have a highly fortified chantry to look after their body so it's not like they have much use for it. Level 5 rituals take a long, long time to learn, and there's so many better uses for your time.

    3 when you say summon, do you mean teleportation? That sounds broke, but if it's just Presence 4 but thaumaturgy? Eh.

    1: The Tremere can learn anything they want. Their system is incredibly open and flexible towards embracing new spells. If they haven't learnt it widely, it's either not worth learning or too disruptive to disseminate.

    2: Tremere are the master-race when it comes to magic and nobody else comes close. A lot of folks might brag about how their tradition is older but that really goes a long way in stating how ineffective they are. The Tremere have a bloodline that favours magic, unlike the FoS, and unlike the Assamites, they actually have a good organizational structure and standardization, whereass the AsSo are utterly dysfunctional as Dur-An-Ki is more a loose umbrella term than a specific practice and the Sorcerers low-key exist as hostages to serve the other two castes.

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  • Hello
    replied
    Originally posted by Kharnov View Post

    They're talking about the first post you wrote that started this topic. And I almost wrote a post pointing out the same, but I held back because 1) I felt it wasn't necessary for me to speak for Reasor, and 2) whether or not you're explicitly holding Sadhana up as exceptionally powerful is debatable. But the essential premise of the topic, that it's strange that Sadhana gets ignored in comparison to Thaumaturgy, does seem to imply it, as do some of the examples that you provide. A power that literally lets you alter people's destiny is definitely not something to scoff at, I'm not sure if there's anything like that in any other form of Blood Sorcery. Being able to make yourself completely immune to Frenzy for an entire night with a level one ritual is also extremely powerful; note that Path of Focused Mind (which Sadhana also gets) requires 5 dots to provide that bonus. Not to mention that it also still includes some of the most versatile and powerful Paths found in Thaumaturgy, like Conjuration and Spirit Manipulation.

    If Sadhana wasn't exceptional in some regards compared to Thaumaturgy and Koldunism, the question "why don't more people talk about/use Sadhana" wouldn't really make sense.

    Also, another reason why most people don't talk about Sadhana, and some may have never even heard of it, may be because it was only ever written about in a few specific sources; only two listed on the wiki, both from Revised Edition. Blood Sorcery is my jam, so I'd at least encountered it before trawling through the wiki, but it'd be pretty easy to miss if it's not one of your main interests.

    Ah, I see.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kharnov
    replied
    Originally posted by Hello View Post
    Which post?
    They're talking about the first post you wrote that started this topic. And I almost wrote a post pointing out the same, but I held back because 1) I felt it wasn't necessary for me to speak for Reasor, and 2) whether or not you're explicitly holding Sadhana up as exceptionally powerful is debatable. But the essential premise of the topic, that it's strange that Sadhana gets ignored in comparison to Thaumaturgy, does seem to imply it, as do some of the examples that you provide. A power that literally lets you alter people's destiny is definitely not something to scoff at, I'm not sure if there's anything like that in any other form of Blood Sorcery. Being able to make yourself completely immune to Frenzy for an entire night with a level one ritual is also extremely powerful; note that Path of Focused Mind (which Sadhana also gets) requires 5 dots to provide that bonus. Not to mention that it also still includes some of the most versatile and powerful Paths found in Thaumaturgy, like Conjuration and Spirit Manipulation.

    If Sadhana wasn't exceptional in some regards compared to Thaumaturgy and Koldunism, the question "why don't more people talk about/use Sadhana" wouldn't really make sense.

    Also, another reason why most people don't talk about Sadhana, and some may have never even heard of it, may be because it was only ever written about in a few specific sources; only two listed on the wiki, both from Revised Edition. Blood Sorcery is my jam, so I'd at least encountered it before trawling through the wiki, but it'd be pretty easy to miss if it's not one of your main interests.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hello
    replied
    Originally posted by Reasor View Post

    I can only respectfully disagree; the original post is literally about how much better Sadhana is.
    Which post?

    Leave a comment:


  • Reasor
    replied
    Originally posted by Hello View Post


    Honestly, compared to Thaumathurgy and koldunic sorcery, Sadhana isn't any more magical.
    I can only respectfully disagree; the original post is literally about how much better Sadhana is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gothik_Knight
    replied
    Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
    I’ve never heard of Sadhana.
    I was thinking the same thing. (this thread made me look up what Sadhana is)

    Thaumaturgy is pretty cool. It's part of the background of the Tremere clan and gives them something unique and mysterious that helps to differentiate them from the Ventrue. Sadhana serves no purpose. The Ventrue don't need it in order to be cool or help identify them. In fact, it confuses things by making that blood-line "magical ventrue", which is what the Tremere are. (Yes, I know they are really more than that when you delve into each clan. I'm talking largely from the perspective of what a player would see on the surface. People don't get to know things better unless they find the surface interesting)

    Leave a comment:


  • Hello
    replied
    Originally posted by Sergeant Brother View Post
    I’m only a little bit familiar with it. I’m actually kind of opposed to the idea of it, since it represents a wild proliferation of Thaumaturgy. Basically, at some point in Revised they decided that any Clan or Bloodline that isn’t in the Camarilla needs it’s own kind of blood magic. Which I thought was silly.

    It does give a chance for the writers to create very unique rituals and paths.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sergeant Brother
    replied
    I’m only a little bit familiar with it. I’m actually kind of opposed to the idea of it, since it represents a wild proliferation of Thaumaturgy. Basically, at some point in Revised they decided that any Clan or Bloodline that isn’t in the Camarilla needs it’s own kind of blood magic. Which I thought was silly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hello
    replied
    Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
    I’ve never heard of Sadhana.

    WHAAAAAAAAAAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Amethyst
    replied
    I’ve never heard of Sadhana.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hello
    replied
    Originally posted by Reasor View Post
    I've never touched Sadhana with a ten foot pole because the remarkable amount of power cited here always struck me as an example of the kind of "the East is more magical because it's so exotic and foreign" racism I used to see when I was reading a lot of New Age literature, around the time when those bloodlines and disciplines were introduced.

    Honestly, compared to Thaumathurgy and koldunic sorcery, Sadhana isn't any more magical.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hello
    replied
    Originally posted by Reasor View Post
    I've never touched Sadhana with a ten foot pole because the remarkable amount of power cited here always struck me as an example of the kind of "the East is more magical because it's so exotic and foreign" racism I used to see when I was reading a lot of New Age literature, around the time when those bloodlines and disciplines were introduced.

    Honestly, compared to Thaumathurgy and koldunic sorcery, Sadhana isn't any more magical.

    Leave a comment:


  • Reasor
    replied
    I've never touched Sadhana with a ten foot pole because the remarkable amount of power cited here always struck me as an example of the kind of "the East is more magical because it's so exotic and foreign" racism I used to see when I was reading a lot of New Age literature, around the time when those bloodlines and disciplines were introduced.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vilenecromancer
    replied
    Simple, it's a revised, if not older, discipline/sorcery. The majority of players came to VTM because of V5 and/or V20. This means a majority of older content is actively ignored. For good reasons in a lot of cases. For example, World of Darkness Gypsies. I hope I don't need to explain why we don't talk about that book.

    Leave a comment:

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