V5 Character Advice/Help Needed.

[Incarnate]

Hi all.

So I'm making a Tzimisce character who's going to be part of the Camarilla for this game. I'm not sure what would be the best character build for it, in terms of attributes, skills and so on, but I have already made some choices for it

Current concept.
The character is a Surgeon, and will for the most part be a social type character relying on manipulation and charisma through intimidation, subterfuge, insight and various knowledge. The character most likely will not have access to Vicissitude and Flesh crafting from the beginning as they're gonna be fledgeling characters. The character desires to be the best surgeon, and obviously will be taking a shortcut towards this through fleshcrating. The character is running a cult where main recruitment is medical students, preferably candidates for surgery specialization. It's Predator type is Osiris.

Currently I'm aiming for the character having access to these discipline from the beginning;
- Dominate
- Protean
- Presence
Eventually get disciplines such as Obfuscate, Auspex and Chimerstry. At least that's the current idea that I'm working with, though I am open to suggestions.

As for advantages and flaws I was thinking down the lines of Status 1, Haven 2, Resources 3, Haven upgrade: Surgery, since there is no benefit in taking flaws, I don't see how it would make sense to for instance to add any Haven flaws. From Osiris it gets, Herd 2 and fame 1.
Flaw 2: Dark Secret (Cult). Due to Osiris I also have to add two dots between enemy and Mythic flaws, here Im thinking Folklore Bane: Silver or Perhaps a Folklore Block and enemy 1, or enemy 2. Though I'm unsure exactly how many dots enemy 2 is worth, as there is something in regards to them counting for two less in their effectiveness, so I'm unsure if that affects their worth in flaw points/dots.

So what would you guys recommend for attributes, skills and others? I'm also open to suggestions with regards to concept and other choices.

Thank you in advance.

//Inc.

[SetiteFriend]

The character is running a cult where main recruitment is medical students, preferably candidates for surgery specialization. It's Predator type is Osiris.

What is this cult about?

Osiris isn't necessarily about a cult, him being a famous doctor with fans is enough. Not that there is anything wrong with him being a cult leader.

Currently I'm aiming for the character having access to these discipline from the beginning;
- Dominate
- Protean
- Presence
Eventually get disciplines such as Obfuscate, Auspex and Chimerstry. At least that's the current idea that I'm working with, though I am open to suggestions.

That'll take a lot of XP, but you'll end with a versatile character. Chimerstry is an Obfuscate Amalgam with Presence though, so not that many disciplines.

since there is no benefit in taking flaws, I don't see how it would make sense to for instance to add any Haven flaws.

It's not you'd gain something from adding them, but it's a way to spend your mandatory flaws.

Flaw 2: Dark Secret (Cult)

What is so bad about it that it is a 2 dark secret?

Though I'm unsure exactly how many dots enemy 2 is worth, as there is something in regards to them counting for two less in their effectiveness, so I'm unsure if that affects their worth in flaw points/dots.

A two dot enemy is two dots of flaws. What counting for two less means, is that they are far stronger than the same amount of dots as an ally. Enemy 2 is comparable to Allies 4, Enemy 1 to Allies 3, etc.

Mind you that a two dot enemy is a very powerful mortal. Flaws in general are strong, and those of two dots tend to be character defining.

So what would you guys recommend for attributes, skills and others? I'm also open to suggestions with regards to concept and other choices.

From most to least, Intelligence, Composure, Resolve and Dexterity are important for Doctors and Surgeons. While Charisma and Manipulation are important for Cult leaders.

You'll probably want to focus on the cult leader part, as it is what will be most useful, and its not like your character had to have been an amazing doctor in life.

[Incarnate]

What is this cult about?

Osiris isn't necessarily about a cult, him being a famous doctor with fans is enough. Not that there is anything wrong with him being a cult leader.

The cult is about the character "teaching"/preaching about transcending the mortal flesh and fragile human mind, through metamorphosis. Obviously, the character is currently lacking in those supporting supernatural powers: Vicissitude and Fleshcraft, but the devout shall receive one way or the other.

The reason I'm going with a cult was because I think it fits very well a Tzimisce, besides being known celebrity, is not good for the Masquerade and could get him a lot of unwanted attention and could get real messy.

That'll take a lot of XP, but you'll end with a versatile character. Chimerstry is an Obfuscate Amalgam with Presence though, so not that many disciplines.

Indeed it's a lot of XP but I think definitely going to make the character very strong as a cult leader and a very versatile character overall, though there might others that would better picking up first. Suggestions?

It's not you'd gain something from adding them, but it's a way to spend your mandatory flaws.

But if those have already been selected, then what's the point?

What is so bad about it that it is a 2 dark secret?

The ST said it was a 2 point flaw because the character is teaching/preaching transcendence and metamorphosis, while also being part of the Camarilla. You think it's less?

A two dot enemy is two dots of flaws. What counting for two less means, is that they are far stronger than the same amount of dots as an ally. Enemy 2 is comparable to Allies 4, Enemy 1 to Allies 3, etc.

Mind you that a two dot enemy is a very powerful mortal. Flaws in general are strong, and those of two dots tend to be character defining.

That makes sense, that was also the way I understood it but wasn't sure. Yes, so perhaps it should be a mix between enemy 1 and mythic flaw 1, since the character isn't exactly a combat oriented character.

From most to least, Intelligence, Composure, Resolve and Dexterity are important for Doctors and Surgeons. While Charisma and Manipulation are important for Cult leaders.

You'll probably want to focus on the cult leader part, as it is what will be most useful, and its not like your character had to have been an amazing doctor in life.

Yes, that's also what I had figured so far, though not exactly all based on the same reasons. I would also assume subterfuge would be important along with insight.

Would you recommend balanced or specialist?
What distribution would you suggest?

[SetiteFriend]

The cult is about the character "teaching"/preaching about transcending the mortal flesh and fragile human mind, through metamorphosis. Obviously, the character is currently lacking in those supporting supernatural powers: Vicissitude and Fleshcraft, but the devout shall receive one way or the other.

The reason I'm going with a cult was because I think it fits very well a Tzimisce, besides being known celebrity, is not good for the Masquerade and could get him a lot of unwanted attention and could get real messy.
(...)
The ST said it was a 2 point flaw because the character is teaching/preaching transcendence and metamorphosis, while also being part of the Camarilla. You think it's less?

Now that you went into it, I understand. It's an interesting set-up for a cult. Preaching about Metamorphosis in the camarilla will get you dirty looks, and if your ST says it fits, then it does

Indeed it's a lot of XP but I think definitely going to make the character very strong as a cult leader and a very versatile character overall, though there might others that would better picking up first. Suggestions?

Honestly, it really depends on how the Chronicle goes and what your needs are. I'd recommend getting some Animalism eventually since it is in-clan, and Sense the Beast is a great power, especially if you don't intend to level it too much. Other than that, Blood Potency 2 will give you an extra dice to all disciplines rolls, which pairs well with a generalist spread of disciplines.

But if those have already been selected, then what's the point?

None, no need to take them if you already got all your required flaws.

Yes, that's also what I had figured so far, though not exactly all based on the same reasons. I would also assume subterfuge would be important along with insight.

Would you recommend balanced or specialist?
What distribution would you suggest?

Insight and Subterfuge are great skills, aside from that I'd go with what you think fits.

I'd just recommend giving the character some combat skills, just so they aren't useless in it. Something that complements their attributes.

[Vilenecromancer]

You're gonna need at least 6 dots into some kind of combat. Because of v5's dice system, if you have less then 6 dice in combat, you'll be slaughtered more then half the time.

Alternatively, just attempt to run...a lot. V5 is RARELY a combat kind of games, but it is good to prepare if it happens at all.

[Incarnate]

Honestly, it really depends on how the Chronicle goes and what your needs are. I'd recommend getting some Animalism eventually since it is in-clan, and Sense the Beast is a great power, especially if you don't intend to level it too much. Other than that, Blood Potency 2 will give you an extra dice to all disciplines rolls, which pairs well with a generalist spread of disciplines.

Definitely Animalism is also one that wouldn't be a bad idea to get early on, and you're right, I wouldn't need more than few levels in it.
Currently it'll be 12'th Generation kindred so will only be blood potency 1, for now at least.

Insight and Subterfuge are great skills, aside from that I'd go with what you think fits.

I'd just recommend giving the character some combat skills, just so they aren't useless in it. Something that complements their attributes.

I think high insight and subterfuge can get you a long way, and can potentially prevent a lot of things from going out of control, especially if you're trying to maintain control then knowing what others think and feel will help make the best decisions in the situation. Though not sure if I need insight at 2 or 3, same with subterfuge, though I've currently set it to 3 and insight at 2.
Since it's not going to be a character who's going to be that strong or tough, as most points have gone into social and mental, there's not much left for the physical attributes.

As for Touchstones and convictions, and what it's clan bane grounded is tied to, I definitely could use some suggestions as I'm kind of at a blank on those.
Will also post the final character info when it's done, or at least in a playable state. ..Currently, it's gender hasn't been assigned either, as I'm not sure on that, as it can give approaches to play this particular character.

[Incarnate]

Note:
There are few places I'm still not entirely sure, so there will be alternate notations for primary and secondary priority choices, or it will be marked with question marks.

.:..The Character so far..:.

---

Character Info

Name: ...
Concept: Doctor (Surgeon - Cult leader)
Chronicle:
Ambition: Learn Vicissitude
Desire: Control/Lead the coterie
Predator: Osiris
Generation: 12
Sire:
Title:

---

Attributes

Physical:
Strength: 1
Dexterity:4
Stamina: 2
Social:
Charisma: 3
Manipulation: 3
Composure: 2
Mental:
Wits: 2
Intelligence: 2
Resolve: 3

---

Skills

Athletics: 1
Craft (Body Crafts): 2
Firearms: 2
Survival: 1
Insight: 3
Intimidation: 2
Subterfuge: 3
Academics: 2 (Theology)
Investigation: 1
Medicine: 3 (Surgery)
Occult: 1 (Kindred History)
Science: 1 (Biology)
Technology: 1

---

Disciplines

Protean 1:
- Eyes of the Beast.

Dominate 2:
- Cloud Memory
- Mesmerize

Presence:
- Daunt

---

Advantages

Backgrounds:
Status: 1
Resources 3
Haven 3
Herd 3
Fame 0

Merits:
Linguistics 0

Flaw
Dark Secret (Cult) 2
Mythic Folklore Block (Uninvited) 1
Enemy 1

---

Additional Info

Health: 5
Willpower: 5
Humanity: 7
Blood Potency:1
Resonance:
Hunting: Manipulation + Subterfuge / Intimidation

[SetiteFriend]

Looks good. I'd change Firearms to Melee though, as it'll benefit from your Dex more.

What is with the two numbers in backgrounds though? I think you are missing 2 flaws as well

[Incarnate]

Looks good. I'd change Firearms to Melee though, as it'll benefit from your Dex more.

What is with the two numbers in backgrounds though? I think you are missing 2 flaws as well

Yes, it was the Dark secret flaw I had missed putting in, it is on the sheet.

The two numbers, I made note of it just above the character sheet entry.
They're there because I haven't decided fully yet, they're basically just to reflect what they'll be if I go with option 1 or 2.
Option 1 / Option 2 - Make sense?

Aren't Melee strength in V5?
The reason I had gone with firearms was due to the character not being a very tough character.

Still needing touchstones and convictions, and what it's clan bane grounded is tied to - I'm kind of blank on those.
Could do with some suggestions.

[SetiteFriend]

Aren't Melee strength in V5?
The reason I had gone with firearms was due to the character not being a very tough character.

Still needing touchstones and convictions, and what it's clan bane grounded is tied to, any suggestions? I'm kind of blank on those.
Could do with some suggestions.

Knives, daggers and short swords are Dexterity + Melee. Strength is for Brawl and Heavy Melee, like Broadswords, Warhammers, Steel beams.

As for Clan Bane, think about your haven and what he has there that is attached to. Maybe medical equipment?

As for convictions, what does your character believe in strongly?

[Vilenecromancer]

Craft (Body Crafts): 2

Body Crafts was a Medicine specialty, and even then this will not come up as disciplines do not use skills.

[Incarnate]

Knives, daggers and short swords are Dexterity + Melee. Strength is for Brawl and Heavy Melee, like Broadswords, Warhammers, Steel beams.

As for Clan Bane, think about your haven and what he has there that is attached to. Maybe medical equipment?

As for convictions, what does your character believe in strongly?

Ah, that makes sense. So dex isn't used in V5 as a primary combat attribute for firearms?

If it's any help, I was thinking Nature and Demeanor being something like Autocrat and Visionary, but that's not a thing in V5.

Hmm, the character believes:
One is only limited by one's own imagination.
Pain is only temporary, victory is eternal.
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
You're your own worst enemy
None may control me, unless it serves my interests.
Metamorphosis is sacred.
Know the enemy and know yourself.

..basically just brainstorming.

I was thinking for the Clan Bane to more a disembodied element, like a concept, something the character represents or something more esoteric in nature.
Possibly what the cult represents?

---

Body Crafts was a Medicine specialty, and even then this will not come up as disciplines do not use skills.

That is actually not entirely true, craft which is a skill and is used in specific Vicissitude rolls, mind you failed rolls means losing the attribute dot and decreases the looks merit.
So obviously, I want to have the craft skill to be specialized, so the body crafts was just to emphasize on this, in V20 and 2nd revised ed. it was Fleshcraft and Bonecraft, and Body craft seems to fit those nicely, and the character has Medicine (Surgery), so it's fitting it has body crafts. But what would you say would be the correct specialty then for Craft if it's to work when using Vicissitude.

[Vilenecromancer]

That is actually not entirely true, craft which is a skill and is used in specific Vicissitude rolls, mind you failed rolls means losing the attribute dot and decreases the looks merit.
So obviously, I want to have the craft skill to be specialized, so the body crafts was just to emphasize on this, in V20 and 2nd revised ed. it was Fleshcraft and Bonecraft, and Body craft seems to fit those nicely, and the character has Medicine (Surgery), so it's fitting it has body crafts. But what would you say would be the correct specialty then for Craft if it's to work when using Vicissitude.

NVM you right. Honestly. any specialty that tells the ST, this is for vicissitude.

[SetiteFriend]

Ah, that makes sense. So dex isn't used in V5 as a primary combat attribute for firearms?

If it's any help, I was thinking Nature and Demeanor being something like Autocrat and Visionary, but that's not a thing in V5.

Hmm, the character believes:
One is only limited by one's own imagination.
Pain is only temporary, victory is eternal.
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
You're your own worst enemy
None may control me, unless it serves my interests.
Metamorphosis is sacred.
Know the enemy and know yourself.

..basically just brainstorming.

I was thinking for the Clan Bane to more a disembodied element, like a concept, something the character represents or something more esoteric in nature.
Possibly what the cult represents?

Firearms is mostly Composure, Dex is used for quick draws (cowboy high noon stuff) and Resolve for Sniping.

Those that I highlighted are the most easily made into convictions. I'd think of what actions would be supporting those convictions, and what would be going against it.

As for the Clan Bane, perhaps you could do something with the Metamorphosis ?

[Incarnate]

NVM you right. Honestly. any specialty that tells the ST, this is for vicissitude.

No worries, it's all good.
It's better to point something out, even if you may be wrong, as you could've been right, especially when considering that in V5, that crafting roll is mainly used when doing something that changes the Appearance, but there are other types of changes where it could be required. In V5 Vicissitude is mainly a Resolve + Protean roll, so both are important, but the character doesn't have enough points or xp (none given as it's a fledgeling character) to raise both to at least a 4. Though character can't even use the Vicissitude power yet, as it hasn't unlocked it yet.

Firearms is mostly Composure, Dex is used for quick draws (cowboy high noon stuff) and Resolve for Sniping.

Ah, got it. That makes good sense. Composure isn't exactly the strong suit of the character, and the dex is needed for the various things, but most the Vicissitude crafting check.

Those that I highlighted are the most easily made into convictions. I'd think of what actions would be supporting those convictions, and what would be going against it.

I rewroteKnow the enemy and know yourself -- Conquer yourself and you can conquer the world.

Would convictions like these makes sense based on those you highlighted.
- Keep pushing forward despite hardships [Pain is weakness leaving the body]
- Keep perfecting yourself [Metamorphosis is sacred] -
- Keep reflecting on own actions - [Conquer yourself and you can conquer the world] - Conquer and control would be synonymous with each other

I don't know if those actions would fit those beliefs, to me they do.
Though I wanted something a bit more towards that autocratic and visionary nature I mentioned, but I supposed I might have struck home with that already with the two bottom convictions, while the first one really is the one that keeps the characters drive going.

As for the Clan Bane, perhaps you could do something with the Metamorphosis ?

I was thinking down those lines too, but I'm not sure what the character would need to be surrounded with while daysleeping.
As per the rules it says it has to be clearly defined and limited - but it doesn't say it has to be tangible, and Metamorphosis is a philosophy, concept or religion, I feel it would fit the character as a religion, but how can that be confined and limited?

Beliefs, Convictions & Touchstones

Beliefs:
Core convictions have been derived from the following beliefs:
1.Pain is weakness leaving the body.
2.Metamorphosis is sacred.
3.Conquer yourself and you can conquer the world.

Notes:
The number represents which conviction it's linked to

Convictions:
1. Keep pushing forward despite hardships
2. Keep perfecting yourself
3. Keep reflecting on own actions

Note: To me, the above corresponds somewhat to Nature: Autocrat and Demeanor: Visionary in V20/VtM:2nd, but not stereotypically.

Touchstones: Trying to tie these to a specific numbered conviction.
1.
Mortal fellow colleague who despite a lot struggles, both internal and external, not always succeeding, but still keeps pushing forward

2. This one I'm not really sure on what should be - any suggestions?

3.
Mortal patient, whom was scarred for life in a reconstructive surgery operation that went extremely bad, the failure felt surreal, as if some one had been puppeteering the whole thing.This touchstone is tied to Background: Enemy 1, the actual enemy in question could be the patient or for instance a relative.