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Is there any clan characters that you should get more screen time?

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  • #16
    The Minotaur, toreador matuselah

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    • #17
      Sobek, the Mokolé-Abomination children of Sutekh
      The Arcadian, children of Marconius
      The Baali Azaneal (seemingly a powerful Baali methuselah, leader of a new Baali branch and believed to be the founder of the Angellis Ater. Elioud scholars of the Tal'Mahe'Ra however cite Azaneal as the name of a Second Generation vampire who had been partially diablerized by one or more Antediluvians, but he had managed to retreat as a manner of disembodied demonic spectre to a Qlippoth realm; if true the current being called Azaneal then would be the husk of a Baali methuselah of unknown name possessed by the demonic spectre of a Second Generation vampire.)
      The Salubri Adonai (is he the Adonai of the Dark Ages, or a "kid" who just took up the elder's name?
      Any, really any member of he Drowned Legacies...

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      • #18
        I miss Ramona.

        When I saw that she was the representing Gangrel Signature Character instead of Beckett in that supplement that came out for V5 I was a bit bummed out. Recent years have made it... hard... to immediately trust that when a young woman character of comparatively little characterization is put forward in place of a more established and iconic male character, it's being done out of merit. But remembering the novels, she really is a much better representative of the clan than he is.

        It was my favorite clan when I first got into the universe, and the opening of her first chapter crawling out of the trunk of a wrecked car after nightfall was such a powerful image of that Gangrel survivor/drifter spirit that Requiem did a bit more with that I fell completely in love. As someone who's lived - mercifully briefly - on the street and had to physically scrounge for food to survive I felt like I could relate to the way she starts out having to focus on getting what she needs and where she needs to make it through the night, with there just not being enough of her left over after that to think much about the grand scheme of things, let alone devise some optimistic long-term plan to better her lot in life and try to stick to it.

        Kindred society very much reflects modern western human society in the game, with broad social systems and power balances that are predictable and dependable, if not necessarily consistent, and since those are so easy to take for granted I loved that at least one signature character lived on the other side of the coin, having to get by with nothing she could count on and no-one interested in respecting or making it easy for her, even to serve their own ends.

        And aside from my personal enjoyment of her, she's also one of the youngest, simplest and least connected of all the signature characters, meaning it's really really easy to write her into almost any chronicle. She's a shoe-in as a passing ally or rival of the coterie with lore-relevant experience to share. A good challenge in a scrap or a chase, and great as backup for a dangerous task who's also never going to overshadow the players since she's barely older or more powerful than they are.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Mr Sharp View Post
          I miss Ramona.

          When I saw that she was the representing Gangrel Signature Character instead of Beckett in that supplement that came out for V5 I was a bit bummed out. Recent years have made it... hard... to immediately trust that when a young woman character of comparatively little characterization is put forward in place of a more established and iconic male character, it's being done out of merit. But remembering the novels, she really is a much better representative of the clan than he is.

          It was my favorite clan when I first got into the universe, and the opening of her first chapter crawling out of the trunk of a wrecked car after nightfall was such a powerful image of that Gangrel survivor/drifter spirit that Requiem did a bit more with that I fell completely in love. As someone who's lived - mercifully briefly - on the street and had to physically scrounge for food to survive I felt like I could relate to the way she starts out having to focus on getting what she needs and where she needs to make it through the night, with there just not being enough of her left over after that to think much about the grand scheme of things, let alone devise some optimistic long-term plan to better her lot in life and try to stick to it.

          Kindred society very much reflects modern western human society in the game, with broad social systems and power balances that are predictable and dependable, if not necessarily consistent, and since those are so easy to take for granted I loved that at least one signature character lived on the other side of the coin, having to get by with nothing she could count on and no-one interested in respecting or making it easy for her, even to serve their own ends.

          And aside from my personal enjoyment of her, she's also one of the youngest, simplest and least connected of all the signature characters, meaning it's really really easy to write her into almost any chronicle. She's a shoe-in as a passing ally or rival of the coterie with lore-relevant experience to share. A good challenge in a scrap or a chase, and great as backup for a dangerous task who's also never going to overshadow the players since she's barely older or more powerful than they are.
          My opinion of Ramona is that she pretty much blasts all of the other Signatrue Characters out of the water but I have the opinion that while we all love Lucita, Fatima, Victoria, and so on--the problem is that they are absolutely terrible examples of their Clans. All of them are Elders in a game that should primarily be about Neonates and people new to vampirism. Ramona feels like someone probably intended Beckett to be the Gangrel Signature character then realized there was absolutely no Neonates among the characters.

          As for characters I wanted to see more of, I kind of got my wish with the Chicago by Night characters as well as the Kindred of Gary, Indiana. I really wouldn't mind seeing more of them even if they're already now the most exposed of 5th Edition. Virtually everyone else has been left out but Onyx Path remembers.

          THEY REMEMBER.
          Last edited by CTPhipps; 06-09-2022, 03:29 PM.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
            but I have the opinion that while we all love Lucita, Fatima, Victoria, and so on--the problem is that they are absolutely terrible examples of their Clans. All of them are Elders in a game that should primarily be about Neonates and people new to vampirism. Ramona feels like someone probably intended Beckett to be the Gangrel Signature character then realized there was absolutely no Neonates among the characters.
            Not only are they elders, they're uncommon flavors of their own clans more often than not. While I find it jarring that the game tends to describe clan culture as strong and most members following suit, Signature Characters by definition must be representatives of what to expect from a more typical member. Not one-note or completely loyal, but a fair example of the average member.

            Becket is a fantastic character, but in this regard he's probably the worst Signature Character, I love when he shows up to remind you that vampires are people and not mass-produced stereotypes, but he's a horrible example to present the clan to a new player. And that is what a Signature Character should be for.


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            • #21
              Meerlinda should be more prominent in v5, she's more likely to survive and plays better into the writters desires for more women representation in evil vampire wizards than whatever karim was trying to do with goterix.

              I also tend to chuckle my social circles tendancy to describe her as etrius, goterix and tremere's carer.
              Last edited by Ragged Robin; 06-10-2022, 07:11 AM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post
                Meerlinda should be more prominent in v5, she's more likely to survive and plays better into the writters desires for more women representation in evil vampire wizards than whatever karim was trying to do with goterix.

                I also tend to chuckle my social circles tendancy to describe her as etrius, goterix and tremere's carer.
                I think I remember reading about a whole slew of ridiculously ancient and low-generation (mostly female) Toreadors, including Methuselahs, on the wiki, just... hanging out in different cities in the modern world today. Or at least until the early 2000s.

                Irrespective of the representation thing, it bugs me that the game never put any serious emphasis on exploring what they were up to. If they were just chilling out playing small-scale social games "because that's what women/Toreadors do, right?" then that's a serious waste of an ancient manipulative inhuman with inherently outdated values and borderline mass mind control powers transplanted in a time and place where people are both more clustered, more fractioned and easier to lead around than ever before, with none of the old competition around.

                A methuselah who wouldn't do something cool and noteworthy with that would have long since been cannibalized by someone who would. And if the idea is a vampire who is genuinely so humble and grounded and survival-oriented that they'd manage to fly under the radar and keep things completely tight in spite of all that opportunity and power then... I mean, their story at least be worth a little exploration too, right?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post
                  Meerlinda should be more prominent in v5, she's more likely to survive and plays better into the writters desires for more women representation in evil vampire wizards than whatever karim was trying to do with goterix.

                  I also tend to chuckle my social circles tendancy to describe her as etrius, goterix and tremere's carer.

                  In all fairness, I don't think the WoD is lacking in the least in "women representation in evil vampire wizards" (perhaps more like the opposite), as we have many good examples, such as Baba Yaga, Lilith, Helena, Kemintiri, Petaniqua, the whole Lilith's cult and thus naturally Antoinette Sauvaterre, Danika Ruthven, among MANY others. What I think we need is "Representation of powerful and efficient Tremere", as we lack that since Revised, when we were hit by the "suddenly everyone is better at Blood Sorcery than the Tremere" plague hahaha...

                  In any case, I agree that Meerlinda is certainly a Tremere that I'd like to have more screen time.
                  Last edited by Herr Meister; 06-10-2022, 11:39 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
                    Not only are they elders, they're uncommon flavors of their own clans more often than not. While I find it jarring that the game tends to describe clan culture as strong and most members following suit, Signature Characters by definition must be representatives of what to expect from a more typical member. Not one-note or completely loyal, but a fair example of the average member.

                    Becket is a fantastic character, but in this regard he's probably the worst Signature Character, I love when he shows up to remind you that vampires are people and not mass-produced stereotypes, but he's a horrible example to present the clan to a new player. And that is what a Signature Character should be for.
                    I remember having a conversation with a White Wolf employee a couple of decades back when the White Wolf forums were still at White Wolf. It was about the Clan Lasombra Trilogy where the goal for the author (Bruce Baugh) was that he was supposed to "fix" Lucita. As I understand it, they wanted the Signature Character of the Lasombra not to be a rebellious Autarkis on the Path of Humanity but to make her more appropriate as a Sabbat Path of Night follower.

                    Which...made that Trilogy go over like a ton of bricks for her fandom.

                    And is ironic now because the Lasombra now are in the Camarilla in large part because so many fans loved Lucita as the rebel on the Path of Humanity.

                    Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post
                    Meerlinda should be more prominent in v5, she's more likely to survive and plays better into the writters desires for more women representation in evil vampire wizards than whatever karim was trying to do with goterix.

                    I also tend to chuckle my social circles tendancy to describe her as etrius, goterix and tremere's carer.
                    I like the fact that Onyx Path hinted that Merlinda is the only surviving Council of Seven member. Then again, Onyx Path is the only group interested in the past NPCs as ongoing important characters.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                    • #25
                      Maybe we can see Belsarius and his Banu Haquim wife in later supplements. Who says that she didn't survive to the modern age despite what it says in Constantnopile By Night.


                      What in the name of Set is going on here?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                        I remember having a conversation with a White Wolf employee a couple of decades back when the White Wolf forums were still at White Wolf. It was about the Clan Lasombra Trilogy where the goal for the author (Bruce Baugh) was that he was supposed to "fix" Lucita. As I understand it, they wanted the Signature Character of the Lasombra not to be a rebellious Autarkis on the Path of Humanity but to make her more appropriate as a Sabbat Path of Night follower.

                        Which...made that Trilogy go over like a ton of bricks for her fandom.

                        And is ironic now because the Lasombra now are in the Camarilla in large part because so many fans loved Lucita as the rebel on the Path of Humanity.
                        I'm one that thoroughly ignores in my games that Lucita ever changed like that. That was an incredibly stupid move, despite Lucita being another example of this very problem.

                        What they should have done is the same they did now with the Gangrel: just take another Lasombra to be the Signature Character, old or new character, and focus on them, no need to do anything with Lucita other than continue with her being her.

                        But I agree that outside the Tremere the game isn't so low in female representation. I wouldn't say it is ideal because it still isn't to the same proportion, but for its time was already quite good.


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                        • #27
                          Did anyone really like the clan Lasombra trilogy series at all?


                          What in the name of Set is going on here?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Lysander View Post
                            Did anyone really like the clan Lasombra trilogy series at all?
                            I mean, it's very well-written but I don't think anyone actually liked making Lucita a more generic Lasombra.

                            I do like that Bruce made it clear that "murdering a bunch of children" is a typial Path activity.

                            No moral ambiguity there.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Lysander View Post
                              Did anyone really like the clan Lasombra trilogy series at all?
                              I quite enjoy a good Greek tragedy and lucita essentially becoming monconda is fun that way. But I do think they should have just made a lasombra signature character distinct from her in the same sense their was a gangrel who wasn't becket. Andrew emory would have been my choice.

                              My current headcanon is Julia sowinski is just lucita impersonating a carmarilla neonate because her name is radioactive and I found her julia dull as written, combined with a in group joke about 50% of lasombra always being an edgy bisexual goth chick (slightly aimed at me lol)
                              Last edited by Ragged Robin; 06-16-2022, 06:12 AM.

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                              • #30
                                It would be interesting to see some of the old gang come back in later supplements like Polina and see what they are doing now.


                                What in the name of Set is going on here?

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