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Spirit Manipulation feels like more trouble than its worth.

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  • Spirit Manipulation feels like more trouble than its worth.

    First of, the spirits hate vampires, even if you turn them into fetishes they will try their best to kill you, and there is no way for you to survive in the umbra.

    Why is this path so loved again?
    Last edited by Hello; 04-16-2022, 06:09 PM.



  • #2
    High risk, high reward scenario.

    Most vampires can't deal with spirits or ghosts, so if you can manage to learn a path of magic that allows for it, then you have a very potent tool in your arsenal. It just occasionally comes back to bite you.

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    • #3
      Also, only some spirits hate vampires. While it's not necessarily the wisest to deal with Banes, they would probably be quite happy to work with a vampire that could offer them something in return. A thread over in the Mage forum also mentions some Weaver spirits being amenable to working with vampires, along with certain High Umbrood, though I dunno if Spirit Manipulation can affect the High Umbra. It doesn't help that the Vampire line tends to give you the least information on interactions with the wider WoD cosmology.

      Also, I personally really like Spirit Manipulation simply because having the ability to perceive and interact with that wider cosmology really appeals to me. Ash Path may be my favourite Necromancy Path for that same reason, even though wading right into the Underworld is a pretty risky idea.
      Last edited by Kharnov; 04-16-2022, 08:54 PM.

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      • #4
        Never liked the idea that every spirit was firmly in the Wyld/Weaver/Wyrm trinity myself. Spirits should be more individualistic than that. Plenty of spirits should have individual interests that can be bargained with as a vampire.

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        • #5
          Spirit Manipulation is one of those powers that's either incredibly strong, or pretty weak. It just depends on the Storyteller, how she wants to use or allow spirit in the campaign and what sort of rules she's using. If she's using the spirit rules from Werewolf things will be a bit different than if she's using the spirit rules from Mage. Making Fetishes can be really strong, especially if a player is full access to the Werewolf books. But is trapping or bullying spirits going to call down an angry shapeshifter that's allied with the spirit?

          Depending on what the ST has planned, Spirit Manipulation is either one of the strongest powersets in VtM or it's not terribly useful, or it can turn into a giant bomb that will blow up in the character's face.

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          • #6
            I don't know man. My Tremere has several Spirit Allies as Retainers he earned through Chiminage. Two Spirit Wolves act as his guardians, and if so commanded, cause his enemies to spontaneously erupt in bite and claw marks. They act as trackers and information gatherers.

            All for the low, low price of a vitae offering every month and a destroyed dogfighting ring.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Hello View Post
              First of, the spirits hate vampires, even if you turn them into fetishes they will try their best to kill you, and there is no way for you to survive in the umbra.

              Why is this path so loved again?
              Spirits hate most people, including Werewolves and Mages.

              The ones FORCED into obedience are the strongest by far. If you aren't able to dominate them, you wouldn't be a vampire anyway. It's no different from enslaving humans really and every vampire does that.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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              • #8
                'Never liked the idea that every spirit was firmly in the Wyld/Weaver/Wyrm trinity myself. Spirits should be more individualistic than that. Plenty of spirits should have individual interests that can be bargained with as a vampire'

                as kharnov said wyrm and weaver spirts are ok with making deals or pacts with vampires it just the wyld spirits who hate them, which makes sense if you look the point of view that wyld spirits are beings that represent life and vampires are a mockery of it.

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                • #9
                  You misunderstand me. I dislike the fundamental idea that all spirits should be clearly in one of those three camps. Those camps should, to a significant degree, be just werewolves dogmatically oversimplifying the spirit world. The spirits themselves shouldn't be on teams, should have very individual interests, and only coincidentally do things that cause werewolves to judge them as belonging to one of those three teams.

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