So what's your view on Nosferatu wanting to kill his clan?

[CajunKhan]

It never made much sense to me. Everything we know about Antes suggests that if Absimilard really wanted to kill his clan, then his clan would be dead. So what created this belief among the Nos? What's your headcanon on this?

My personal theory is that Absimilard has a very low tolerance for failure and eats his own progeny fairly routinely. He IS grossed out by them, but this manifests as a zero-failure-tolerance policy rather than a general desire to slaughter his clan. He actually doesn't care about Nos in the player character generation range one way or the other, just his own progeny, who directly carry out his will. His direct progeny have told stories about how frequently he kills his progeny, and those stories have become distorted over time, until the entire clan thinks their founder is out to get them.

[CTPhipps]

It never made much sense to me. Everything we know about Antes suggests that if Absimilard really wanted to kill his clan, then his clan would be dead. So what created this belief among the Nos? What's your headcanon on this?

My personal theory is that Absimilard has a very low tolerance for failure and eats his own progeny fairly routinely. He IS grossed out by them, but this manifests as a zero-failure-tolerance policy rather than a general desire to slaughter his clan. He actually doesn't care about Nos in the player character generation range one way or the other, just his own progeny, who directly carry out his will. His direct progeny have told stories about how frequently he kills his progeny, and those stories have become distorted over time, until the entire clan thinks their founder is out to get them.

I think he's perfectly likely to destroy his Clan and would love to. However, he needs his Clan to feed on as an Antediluvian.

Mind you, in my games, all Nosferatu are descended from Baba Yaga and until the death of the Hag of Russia, she was keeping his creatures at bay.

She being almost as old and powerful as an Antediluvian.

[No One of Consequence]

I think all of the 3rd generation have at best only ever seen their spawn as a combination of disposable pawns/expendable assets and walking snacks. It's open distain feels about par for the course.

[AnubisXy]

I tend to run the idea that Abismilard doesn't really care at all about his kids. Regular Nos have this idea that since the Niktuku hunt down and kill regular Nosferatu, this means that Abismilard must be behind it, or support it, but that's not really true. Rather it's the Niktuku who are seeking to kill the Nosferatu for various personal reasons. And Abismilard has a sort of "hands off" policy and "only the strong survive" mentality, on top of hating himself and pretty much everything anyway. So if his descendants want to murder each other for whatever reason, he's not going to get in their way. "Knock yourselves out you butt-ugly little bastards," pretty much sums up the entirety of his thoughts on the matter.

[Mister_Dunpeal]

Doesn't bother me at all frankly. Not making sense to a mortal perception is supposed to kinda happen when it comes to not just Antes but also the Methuselah's. They're basically so ancient and detached from humanity as to be utterly alien and inscrutable, nevermind the potential to amass obscenely high dots (pre-5th, anyhow.) in their mental attributes.) Just because we can't understand it doesn't mean there is no logic at all - the logic is just so complex or different that it defies our ability to parse it because we simply don't have the intellect and perspective that an Antediluvian does. Something that seems 'stupid' now could turn out to be some 12th-dimensional chess masterstroke centuries or even millenia down the line. Especially given Nos is likely to be fighting other Antediluvians in the process who also act/operate on similar scales.

That said any 'logic' likely would fit into the seemingly cyclical nature of Gehenna and WoD reality such as it is. Antes are one of the few creatures to have the age, knowledge, and power to actually parse that sort of scale, and make plans accordingly. I mean they can totally destroy their children in one 'age' and then start from scratch as long as they survive and some humans survive as well. For all we know each 'cycle' isn't just for feeding - its the way they keep themselves amused throughout millenia. Once the game is over you clear the gameboard and put the pieces away, only to 'set up' once you're ready to play the next round.

[Kharnov]

As has been pointed out, whether or not Absimilliard really wants to kill off his descendants is a matter of IC legend and OOC Storyteller fiat.

But if you *do* want to roll with the idea that he does, I came up with a theory/head-canon for why he hasn't succeeded: Caine won't let him, out of petty vindictiveness. Based on the idea that the Nosferatu curse is Caine punishing Absimilliard for destroying Zillah, Caine 1) uses his own power to keep Absimilliard from outright destroying them with his own power, and 2) hunts the Nictuku the way they hunt other Nosferatu, or sends his own blood-bonded ghouls to do the job, since ghouls empowered by the blood of Caine himself might be a fair match for a Methuselah, maybe even an Antediluvian (I think Caine's ghoul Jamal from the Enoch was said to rival the Third Generation, but I'd need to check that again).

[Reasor]

Fear of the clan founder keeps the inhabitants of each Warren loyal to each other and to the local elders who keep them secret and safe. If it's a con, it's been an incredibly useful one, even before it positioned the clan's members to be the shut-ins whose time to shine came with the dawn of the Information Age.

[monteparnas]

Everything we know about Antes

Everything we know about Antes is wrong.

Antes are impossibly old mythical founders. Every information about them is at best the retelling of a retelling of an old legend that went through at least four translations, and that's just before it ever being committed to writing.

For me Absimiliard hates his progeny but is too locked in self-loathing and petty ramblings to ever act on anything in a remotely grand scale. But I don't like the idea of Antes being all-powerful and real at the same time, so that's my personal truth just because I like it.

If everything we know about the Antes were simultaneously true, the very setting would be completely different because those god-like children would be throwing their overpowered tantrums all over the place even without ever giving up their true locations to one another in any way. Since the world exists, we can only conclude that something is off, but never be able to determine what.

[MyWifeIsScary]

I think all clan curses are deliberate choices the clan founders have inflicted upon their progeny in order for them to work together better (without a shared weakness, everyone's just a rival). So for that and other reasons I'm somewhat skeptical that the nos ancients are killing their descendents. If anything I think it's a cover for Nos vs Nos actions or Ratkin actions or hunter actions: It's good for the clans reputation if they are really afraid of ancients and aren't just building dungeon fortresses for something so petty as normal clan infighting.

[Vilenecromancer]

I have many ideas, but my favorite idea about Absimiliard is twofold:

• He's bored. He was a hunter, and likely found his condition boring as all hell as the hunt became routine. He absolutely hates his progeny and makes a game out of culling the weakest of nests. He could use his near god-like abilities to just wipe them out in a single snap, but where's the fun in that? Better to take his time, after all they have forever, right?

• He's not stupid. Vampires are backstabbing bastards, and he knows this! The other Antediluvians would have a field day if Absimiliard took all of his unwitting pawns off the board himself. So, he keeps the majority of Nosferatu around. He still hates them and will send his agents to wipe out careless nests of Nosferatu for shits and giggles, but he can't wipe them all out. Yet. The moment his enemies are out of the game, he'll set his attention to all those hideous Nosferatu.

Oddly enough I see him the same way I see Light Yagami from Death Note. Bored out of his mind, looking for any opportunity to turn everything into a competition.

[Shadeprowler]

It all comes down to vanity I think
Noddist tradition claims that Absimiliard, the Nosferatu founder, bore a tiny scar from his sire on his otherwise perfect face, driving him mad with hate and envy, until he lashed out against his sire, Zillah.(Mind you, a very few soruce claims, he actually succeded, tho he attacked her with the cohort of the monsters he embraced, the Firstborn, the Nictuku. Zillah survived - and that attack was actullay before everyone went against the 2nd Gen... but the second atempt was a faluire too, and if anything the Weeping Stone of the Lost Tribe is a "proof" of that)
The Erciyes Fragments state:
"He, who sought to hide
his monstrous deeds
Shall become monstrous in visage
and doomed to dwell in offal
and darkness",
the Book of Nod states:
"When [Nosferatu] was found indulging
his tastes
in foul ways with his own children
Caine laid his hand on [Nosferatu],
and told him that he would forever
wear his evil
and twisted his visage"
Like most of the Clan's curses, this one is originally was placed on the Founder, but not the whole clan, several of the Antediluvians recived their "curse" before the whole "lets attack the 2nd Generation" and was later extended to their progeny.
Cappadocius's Embrace went wrong. They say that when he died, vengeful shades from the netherworld clung to him and fragmented his soul during the Embrace, causing his obsession with death (due to the unconscious desire to reunite with his soul) and making his body paler. Caine merely cursed Cappadocius' childer to share their founder's incomplete Embrace
Malkav wasn't that sane to begin with, but Lilith revealed a secret to him that broke his mind... or Malkav was visited by an angel or angels of the Lord, who imparted unto him certain revelations that were meant to secure Caine's repentance, and that he then approached Caine and spoke to him and his brothers. Caine, in rage, was said to have struck him down for this attempt and to have then cursed his descendants with insanity. The point is, either version you take (or the tons of others) they have something in common: the curse was not really related to the second generation (okay, one theory of the curse is that Malkav was a notorious liar and his lies nearly caused the death of Zillah. Caine, enraged, cursed Malkav with telling an infinite number of "truths" thereafter)
Ennoia, Haqim, Lasombra, Arikel and Ishtar (well some clans have multiply founders, figures)... the list is actually pretty long.
The point is, Absimiliard had to "wear" on his skin who he really is. A monster. Then this phenomenon was spred among his descendants (with a little extra, if you belive the Toreador's claim, that Caine cursed Absimiliard with a hunger for others' secrets in addition to his deformed appearance after he mentioned the forbidden First Generation)
And now comes a really interesting thing that actually support this theory is the Laibon Legacy of the Guruhi.
The Guruhi believe themselves to be the masters of Africa, the rightful rulers of its lands and people. This hubris and vanity sounds familiar?
There is an old Guruhi legend which says there are two "lines" of Guruhi. The second line was supposed to take over Africa, replacing the original line when it was deemed "unfit",
More so, the Guruhi seem to share a weakness with Clan Nosferatu, though theirs is much more complicated. The appearance of a Guruhi changes based on their moods, reflected by their Orun and Aye; a Guruhi in a good mood with high Orun appears normal or may even possess unearthly beauty. However, one with a low Aye is revealed as a monstrous creature, much like the Nosferatu.
Or one would say, their body shows the what is inside their soul...
It is not a suprise, the "unfit" Guruhi is said to be haunted by monsters and demons
Like how a Guruhi with low Aye and monstorous visage after a time... tend to dissapear
Puting these things together for me - and you can call this a headcanon if you want - it is cleaer, Absimiliard hunts his descendants, because of vanity, pride, anger and shame
They remind him of himself, like looking to a mirror and the curse... they are like him. Yima in this case a wild card, because he (she?) was pure enough to be no effected the curse... or not, impossible to say wich version is true
The whole "if I kill every one of my Clan, Caine will forgive me and will lift his curse" is a bit nonsense, since even if his body wouldn't refelct his soul, that scar Zillah left on his perfect face would remain... and he would be back in square one
More logical and understandable, make sense he hunts his Clan because 1, they are like him, their inner self reflects on their body, reminding him he was never perfect and 2, they are not Loyal; the Clan as a whole could be traced back - as per The Revised Clanbook - Absimilliard's three childer who weren't blood-bound to him. One was the Matriarch, who sired the bulk of the Clan, the second was Baba Yaga, who was much younger than the other 4th Gen, and the third is unknown but possibly it is Yima (or Melachoate from LS, Sire of Androvikus) - and if anyone, Absimiliard would know how dangerous soemone who is not bonded to his/her progenitor...
Anyhow, only my two cent

[Ragged Robin]

I tend to support the 3rd generation having distinct outlooks and attitudes so tend to run with it.

[Lysander]

Like the True Fae from Changeling The Lost line. We should not give "rational human" mind sets to beings that ceased to be human ages ago and might need their line to stay healthy and intelligent.

[Chris24601]

One prospect is that Absimiliard, instead gulping down hordes of his childer in a cyclical Gehenna event is instead munching on small numbers of them fairly regularly which keeps him more semi-conscious through the ages than his kin who gorge themselves, are active for a time and then go back to a deep sleep leaving just enough of their clan left to repopulate for their next wake cycle.

Particularly in this digital age; maybe he only needs to keep his mind conscious while his body barely moves beyond what is needed to learn the secrets of men from their own machines. This requires only smaller, but more frequent meals.

[monteparnas]

Particularly in this digital age; maybe he only needs to keep his mind conscious while his body barely moves beyond what is needed to learn the secrets of men from their own machines. This requires only smaller, but more frequent meals.

So, the Ultimate Hikikomori. Yeah, it fits.