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Ways vampires can cross into the Umbra.

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  • Mercurial
    started a topic Ways vampires can cross into the Umbra.

    Ways vampires can cross into the Umbra.

    What are the ways that vampires can cross the Gauntlet into the Umbra? I am sure there is a lvl 5 Ritual that the Tremere know, but what else is there? And what would be thematically appropriate? Could a Koldun invent a Way that allows crossing over due to the fact that their magic seems to be partially derived from the spirit world in any event?

  • Shadeprowler
    replied
    Originally posted by Mercurial View Post
    What are the ways that vampires can cross the Gauntlet into the Umbra? I am sure there is a lvl 5 Ritual that the Tremere know, but what else is there? And what would be thematically appropriate? Could a Koldun invent a Way that allows crossing over due to the fact that their magic seems to be partially derived from the spirit world in any event?
    Tho' not really a ritual description, Transylvania by Night, Transylvania Chronicles, Libellus Sanguinis, Dark Ages Clan Novel: Tzimisce gives us a nice idea about the Fiend's spirituality
    Especially Transylvania by Nigh, where you can find a lot about Kupala and the Kolduns, and a lil' event called:


    Kupala's Night

    The pagan ways are the old ways of the Earth, and sometimes Christians fear them with good reason. Just as there is light in the world, there is darkness, and during the festival of Kupala's Night, the force of darkness is undeniably strong. Tzimisce mystics and feudal lords often travel to the knezates of other respected rulers at this time, setting aside their feuds long enough to commune with the ancient spirits of corruption: the kupala. These spirits are the offspring of an ancient Slavic god of the same name — although Kupala's influence will be broken long before the 20th century, he is a force to be reckoned with in the 12th century.

    Mortal pagans practice Kupala's Night on June 22nd. They also revere Kupala as a benevolent god. Tzimisce, of course, know both suppositions for the lies they are. The true rituals of Kupala's Night are performed on a different night each year. Only Tzimisce astrologers can discern the most efficacious day for performing the violent ceremony. The veil between the land offlesh and the realm ofspirit is easier to rend on this night, and those who revere the old ways can see the very taint of the earth. Horrible apparitions infect the land, and where the soil has been corrupted, the hideousforms oft he kupala can be seen by moonlight. They thrash and gibber, contorting their bodies into impossible displays of physiological degeneration.

    The land and the ruler are one, and so the Transylvanian Tzimisce show their reverence for the land by sharing their blood with each other and the earth. With the assistance of mystics, participants enact an ancient rite involving the sharing of blood, A silver cup containing the vitae of all in the ceremony
    is passed around to be consumed and the last few drops are poured on the ground. This not only demonstrates their alliance, but it also fortifies them for the task at hand. The screams of the kupala stop as terror seizes the spirits.

    Then the slaying begins. Vengeful Tzimisce distend their bodies, takes their Zulo form and sharpen bloody claws. The spirits cry for mercy, yet none is given. Freely killing the maddening evil in the soil, the Fiends purify the land in obeisance to their ancient pact to protect it. Their fervor escalates into all-consuming frenzy much too often, and nothing in the vicinity is safe. By dawn, the madness fades and the evil of Kupala is weakened once again.

    Hospitality is extended to guests who assisted in the reaving the following night. The truce between collaborators lasts long enough for travelers to return to their fiefdoms. in a week or two, the fierce fighting for control of the land renews, but by then, the greatest of the clan's enemies has been grievously wounded.


    Sadly, no "real" descritpion is given
    But on Kupala's Night, the Gauntlet in areas infected by the kupala drops to 2. Tzimisce koldun enact a Level Five Thaumaturgy or Koldunic Sorcery (see Libellus Sanguinis 1: Masters of the State) ritual allowing the Tzimisce to enter the Penumbra and battle the spirits.
    Funny tho', basically the Tzimisce doing the Werewolves job in a sense on that night

    This don't means the Tzimisce are regular Umra-travelers, but the Kolduns deffinitly knows the way to do it... it just needs preparation, not just 'steping sideway"
    Tho' I would let a Danislav (revenant family that descended from the Kinfolk of the Shadow Lords) Koldun to have deeper undesrtnding even the innate ability to step sideways, a bit corrupted version, since even the BSD are capable of it

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  • monteparnas
    replied
    Originally posted by Toby Weingarten View Post
    I've tried to make a combination discipline of Protean 5 and Auspex 5 to change a vampire directly into ephemera. Possibly higher levels. This would probably be a very rare power, as few vampires would know both disciplines at the right levels. as well as knowing about the spirit worlds in general. As it is, I personally feel that Astral Projection sends one into a version of the Astral Penumbra (or Twilight World as I like to call it in my updated model of the Otherworlds). From there, a vampire could travel to the Vulgate and Spires easily, possibly even to the Epiphanies is one desires. In fact, I think that there might be a least one Ante who ascended into a sort of "blood god" to dwell in the Spires as a way to get around the Curse. As to the Underworld, the various Necromancy rituals/Paths cover that. For the Dreaming, one gets Enchanted by drinking a Changeling's blood, and poof, you're in the Near Dreaming. Still need to come up with other methods for the weirder parts of the Umbra.
    Not sure if this power needs to be so demanding to learn. Auspex 5 is a given if you're going that route, but if Protean will be the pairing it could be as low as 3 imo. Curiously it would make the Tzimisce prime candidates for it in any game that trades Vis/Dom for Protean, and I find it reasonably fitting.

    Astral Projection going for the Astral Umbra is certainly reasonable, and I agree with the idea of an Ante living there. But I have one correction to make on Changeling: you don't get to the Near Dreaming as soon as you're Enchanted, what you get is to see the Chimerical reality of the Autumn World. The actual Near Dreaming must be accessed by Trods, but indeed being Enchanted makes you as able to use them as the fae, and there may even exist Trods that only the Enchanted can use, or even only Vampires. If you're not an active threat some Changelings may even accept you in their Freeholds for a short stay or Enchant you themselves. In my current Changeling Chronicle the PCs are near to encountering the local Setite, not knowing he is Enchanted by an Unseelie Childling.

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  • Baaldam
    replied
    Chicago by Night 2nd edition, Yaryan's Tellurian discipline. ​

    From a simpler time when writers didn't make everything that is somewhat novel or flashy into a level 5+ ritual or elder power.

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  • Toby Weingarten
    replied
    I've tried to make a combination discipline of Protean 5 and Auspex 5 to change a vampire directly into ephemera. Possibly higher levels. This would probably be a very rare power, as few vampires would know both disciplines at the right levels. as well as knowing about the spirit worlds in general. As it is, I personally feel that Astral Projection sends one into a version of the Astral Penumbra (or Twilight World as I like to call it in my updated model of the Otherworlds). From there, a vampire could travel to the Vulgate and Spires easily, possibly even to the Epiphanies is one desires. In fact, I think that there might be a least one Ante who ascended into a sort of "blood god" to dwell in the Spires as a way to get around the Curse. As to the Underworld, the various Necromancy rituals/Paths cover that. For the Dreaming, one gets Enchanted by drinking a Changeling's blood, and poof, you're in the Near Dreaming. Still need to come up with other methods for the weirder parts of the Umbra.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pedro de Castillio
    replied
    there is a werewolf gift with which you can grab someone and take him into the Umbra with him. (rank 3 theurge gift called parting the velvet curtain)
    Then the next question is which edition do you play? In dark ages there, is the 6 spiritus ability to merge with an animal spirit and then travel to the umbra useing the ability as spirit.

    Leave a comment:


  • monteparnas
    replied
    Canonical already-existing ways are few. Possible ways that make sense, not as much.

    Officially we have a couple level five rituals and a level five Necromancy Path.

    Now, semi-officially we have Auspex 5. The books never explored the nature of Astral Projection and it is easy to assume that it means no direct connection to the Umbra, but the opposite is actually just as valid since Vampire doesn't touch the subject of Umbra at all. Hat it any writing on it, then it would make sense to say that the game explicitly mentions a place, but not any way to reach it, but isn't the case.

    So to begin with you can make Auspex 5 cross the Gauntlet and apply to it any rule you want. Going to the Astral Penumbra would make a lot of sense and justify the Garou not seeing Vampires there, but given general Auspex's description and abilities, you could easily let it cross into any Umbra without the need for additional powers. If you don't want to, modifying Auspex to work with a specific Merit built for it or a new Ability or Background (or even an old one) wouldn't be much of a stretch.

    You can justify rituals for crossing the Umbra at level 5 for any sorcery. I'd instead argue that some kinds of sorcery, like Koldunism, could have such rituals at level 4, or even 3. You can also modify Spiritus and some other Disciplines to have this power in substitution or even in addition to one of their current ones.

    Finally, items and places for crossing may exist and the games never said Vampires don't know off or have access to them. There are Wonders, Fetishes and other things that arguably or explicitly can be used by Vampires, and not necessarily high-ranking. Access to such resources pretty much depends on the ST, but they could even be common.

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  • SuperSabbatST
    replied
    Besides the ritual Umbral Walk, Spirit Manipulation level 5, duality, lets you do it if you botch. In Koldunism their is a ritual in Transylvania by Night called Kupala's Night that lets you basically remove the gaunlet for a night to fight Kupala spirits in the physical world. Its not really well written out, but its there. You could use that as a basis I suppose.

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  • Ragged Robin
    replied
    Giovanni ash path can let you into the dark umbra.

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  • Reasor
    replied
    One of the narrators in the original Lasombra clanbook dreamed wistfully of the clan having its own space program one day. Private space programs like the billionaires all have now weren't even on the radar back then. Now, I think it ought to be at least a project that some NPC is working on.

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  • glamourweaver
    replied
    I’d let a Koldunic Sorcerer cross into the Middle Umbra with a ritual.

    I’d also be open to allowing an Astral Projecting vampire to find access into the High Umbra if they were actively seeking it.

    And obviously Necromancy to enter the Low Umbra.

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