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Can women cainites ascend in Mithra's cult?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by SetiteFriend View Post

    This is one thing people miss with Methuselahs in general imo. A Methuselah isn't the average senile elderly who lives in a retirement home and can't use a modern phone, the same way some elderly people adapt very well to technology and new things, so should Methuselahs, which are supposed to be the best of the best, having survived for thousands of years. Mithras and Helena are two great examples of this.

    The writing will go back and forth on that kind of thing about Methuselahs, but yeah, I prefer them as beings who have managed to make it this long in a deeply adverse world because a knack for how to survive and actually advance yourself to any degree would be both a scary and also fluid thing on that sheer scale of time.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by MarkK View Post


      Then you should be ready to clarify to your player that you're intending to ignore the published parts of the setting where he's the opposite of what you're saying and explain why you want to ignore them, so as to avoid any confusion on your game. That's just being fair from a gaming perspective.

      Also to be clear, the book that notes there are women in the Cult of Mithras with regards vampires is a Dark Ages book talking about the structure of the vampiric Cult in the medieval period, the V5 book that otherwise notes this being a thing in the modern day came later than that. I'm not sure thus what you're trying to say there with the "it's not modern day" thing?

      There are other Dark Ages books where Mithras works alongside or otherwise allies with women vampires just fine, even gives them considerable positions of importance and political authority in the Baronies of Avalon during the medieval period when he controlled England (well, vampire England anyway) to the point of even by his direct hand making one of them in charge of entire territories, what have you.

      The view you have of this character is not in sync with multiple portrayals of this character in actual books for the game in both the Dark Ages, Victorian, and modern VtM lines, is basically the thing. If you're going to dismiss them for sake of others, as an ST you should be willing to tell your players that.

      I think you're misunderstanding me completelly, the point of the thread was trying to convince myself that it's possible for her to go ahead and make such a character (the opposite of what you're saying I'm doing), the point is I haven't read a single line about Mithras's cult saying women were allowed to be priests in the Middle Ages. If you give me the sources, I'd settle it and allow her to go ahead with her plan as I'm already inclined to do so.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post
        I think you're misunderstanding me completelly, the point of the thread was trying to convince myself that it's possible for her to go ahead and make such a character (the opposite of what you're saying I'm doing), the point is I haven't read a single line about Mithras's cult saying women were allowed to be priests in the Middle Ages. If you give me the sources, I'd settle it and allow her to go ahead with her plan as I'm already inclined to do so.
        "Only male mortals practiced the rituals of bloodletting. Vampire Mithraists impose no such gender restriction on their practitioners." - V20 Dark Ages Companion

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        • #19
          Originally posted by SetiteFriend View Post

          "Only male mortals practiced the rituals of bloodletting. Vampire Mithraists impose no such gender restriction on their practitioners." - V20 Dark Ages Companion

          Thanks, I'll have a look at it.

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          • #20
            It depends on how the ST interprets several things. First, how closely does the vampire Mithras cult reflect the true historic Roman era Mithraic mysteries? Second, even if there is continuity between them, did the vampire cult change in anyway between the Roman era and now? Third, what is the rational behind the exclusion of woman from the mysteries? Is it somehow intrinsic to the mysteries, or just a reflection of culture at the times? Fourth, what is the applicability of exclusion of mortal women to vampires who are women? Do their undead state somehow nullify the reasons for the exclusion of mortal women? Fifth, even if women are/were banned from direct involvement of the Mithraic mysteries, is there any kind of auxiliary for women? Might they have their own rites and rules separate from the better well known mysteries that involved the men?

            An ST can justify several different answers for each of these questions and come up with their own version of the vampire cult that is equally plausible. It really comes down to what that individual ST wants for their chronicle, either in a general way for a specific chronicle need.

            If you assume that it was the vampire Mithras himself who founded the historical cult, and that cult has survived today under his guidance, he established its mysteries and rituals for a purpose. What is that purpose? Why its connection to the sun? Why the connection to being born from a rock? Why slaying a bull? Why was it so concentrated among soldiers? Any exclusion of women is just one piece of the puzzle. Once you determine Mithras's purpose, you can determine if it makes sense to exclude women in general still today, or female vampires in particular.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post
              Just food for thought. We all know that Mithra's very sexist, as is his cult. What do you guys think of the feasibility of a woman vampire ascend in his cult?
              I haven't read anything about Anne Bowesley's relationship with Mithra's cult. Could a female cainite ever rise in importance in his cult?
              I'm thinking about running a chronicle centered around Mithra's court and this thought came to me.
              I can't see why not in any case. According to to most write ups on methsulaths they tend to be longer bothered by skin color, gender or mortal beliefs. As a solider I think Mithras would acknowledge the fact that he needs to be adaptable and how conflict is always changing. Even Karsh who is somewhat younger kept this in mind.


              What in the name of Set is going on here?

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