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Do Nos and Malks get into disputes over who can claim the homeless as their domain?

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  • Do Nos and Malks get into disputes over who can claim the homeless as their domain?

    I mean, a huge chunk of the homeless are mentally ill. Do Nos and Malks fight over who can claim homeless-dense areas as domain?

  • #2
    Possibly, especially after 1967 in america when asylums and mental hospitals starting getting closed on-mass. Before then Malkavians had pretty clear lines on where their domains would be.

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    • #3
      Also possibly the Caitiff, the Gangrel, or Brujah. Possibly all of them, just varying on location.

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      • #4
        Pretty sure there are enough of them to go around.


        Exalted Whose Name is Carved in Leaves of Jade

        Senator of the Greater Chamber

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        • #5
          I would imagine the city's shelters and the blocks near the soup kitchens (where a lot of people sleep outdoors) being territories seen as worth fighting over, but settling these kinds of disputes is what a Prince is for.

          As an aside, if you're willing to make a city's homeless population a part of the story, then the presence or absence of anti-homeless architecture, designed to deny them a safe place to sleep, could reflect a number of different factors in a city's vampiric politics. The relative influence of Kindred who prey on the homeless, attempts to keep them away from certain domains and herd them toward others, etc.
          Last edited by Reasor; 05-23-2022, 06:34 PM.

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          • #6
            I always view domain claims as being based on individual vampires, not some generic "clan claim". Yes, we can expect some consistent claims because of the nature of clans - their weakness/bane or culture, but there will always be lots of exceptions. I've never run a game where it was assumed all homeless "belonged" to the Nosferatu or all mentally ill people "belonged" to the Malkavians. Instead, it was THAT specific asylum was part of the domain of THIS particular Malkavian, or THAT neighborhood was the acknowledged hunting grounds of THIS Nosferatu and so on. And there often were other concepts involving other clans that touched on these same areas. I've seen Tremere psychiatrists, Brujah social workers, Gangrel hobos and more who walk in those same circles and have their own hunting grounds and domains.

            As Reasor said, disputing rival claims is the responsibility of the Prince. I always have the Prince set aside a chunk of decent hunting ground as a communal hunting ground for all vampires so everyone can feed. It is assumed outside that area you can't feed unless you're given special permission. But other areas of the city can be exclusive to a single vampire or long standing coterie.

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            • #7
              It is worth noting that the larger cities, especially the older ones tend to have extensive tunnel networks which are homes to "homeless" communities. At this point it is becoming multi-generational communities apparently. So it is worth considering the difference between tunnel folk and above ground migrant homeless groups, be it train hoppers or hobos.

              I could see the nosferatu clan being the guardians/shepherds/farmers of those tunnel communities. The fact that the Nosferatu also have spawning pools and the resultant mutant animals makes for a very different dynamic.

              The Malkavians on the other hand do not have as many commonalities, Malks run the spectrum (no joke intended) from fish malk to OCD research assistant and everything in between. So I don't see the clan as a whole moving in any given direction or making any sort of definitive claim. Malks just feed on whom ever or what ever fits their particular interests or issues. Sure they might be attracted to individuals with mental disorders, except following that line of thinking the malks should feed on the rich just as much as the homeless.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
                I always view domain claims as being based on individual vampires, not some generic "clan claim". Yes, we can expect some consistent claims because of the nature of clans - their weakness/bane or culture, but there will always be lots of exceptions. I've never run a game where it was assumed all homeless "belonged" to the Nosferatu or all mentally ill people "belonged" to the Malkavians. Instead, it was THAT specific asylum was part of the domain of THIS particular Malkavian, or THAT neighborhood was the acknowledged hunting grounds of THIS Nosferatu and so on. And there often were other concepts involving other clans that touched on these same areas. I've seen Tremere psychiatrists, Brujah social workers, Gangrel hobos and more who walk in those same circles and have their own hunting grounds and domains.

                As Reasor said, disputing rival claims is the responsibility of the Prince. I always have the Prince set aside a chunk of decent hunting ground as a communal hunting ground for all vampires so everyone can feed. It is assumed outside that area you can't feed unless you're given special permission. But other areas of the city can be exclusive to a single vampire or long standing coterie.
                In my games, it depends on the city. In older cities, especially in Europe, where you have vampires who have been living there for hundreds of years, they're more likely to have communal, clan domains. Vampires still have their own individual domains, but certain segments of the city would be declared as belonging to one clan or another. This grew out of the old feudalist traditions and some cities are still using domains that were carved out by the Prince seven or eight centuries ago. Clans are loathe to give up their communal domains and Princes generally don't want to risk pissing everyone off by taking away communal clan domains.

                Meanwhile younger cities, like those in the North America (and especially those west of the Mississippi) don't do communal domains like that. It's one of the things I use to highlight differences between European and American cities, older cities and younger ones.

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                • #9
                  AnubisXy That's not a bad idea. I do believe it's a good idea that some aspects of vampire society, especially in the Camarilla, is different when it is in the Old World where some cities are many centuries or even thousands of years old, and elsewhere where cities are much younger and less established.

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                  • #10
                    While Nosferatu might come into conflict about the homeless with Malkavians I personally find a Nosferatu-Gangrel conflict to be more likely. Gangrel also seem, in stereotype at least, to be less into seducation and such and lacks both Obfuscate and Dominate which could make feeding a bit easier for the Malkavians, thus the Gangrel are more likely to stalk back streets and thus more likely to target the homless.

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                    • #11
                      Most Gangrel wander the outlands rather than the cities. They mostly feed on hitchhikers and truck drivers and people in rural diners. They're the least likely to come into conflict with other clans over hunting territory.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
                        AnubisXy That's not a bad idea. I do believe it's a good idea that some aspects of vampire society, especially in the Camarilla, is different when it is in the Old World where some cities are many centuries or even thousands of years old, and elsewhere where cities are much younger and less established.
                        It's something I play up more when I run Dark Ages games. Basically in many cities, the local Prince would carve off sections of the city and give those sections to Clans. Then the Clan would subdivide that territory between members or just let everyone do whatever they want.

                        Then the Prince could use that as a stick to keep other vampires in line. If some vampire began ticking the Prince off, she could restrict that Clan's domain, so that was a method for forcing Clans to police themselves. It was a little bit like the feudalistic tradition of a king granting territory a nobleman who would then sub-divide that territory between his knights.

                        Along with this, the Prince basically owned all of the territory that wasn't given to any Clan. So vampires who were clanless or from very small clans that didn't own any Clan territory in a city would need to get permission to feed in the Prince's domain, or would have to work out a deal with one of the Clans to feed in their domain. And if that stranger causes trouble, the clan runs the risk of getting punished, so strangers have to offer all sorts of gifts, favors or other incentives to a clan (or the Prince) to get permission to feed in their territory.

                        Then fast forward 1000 years and many cities essentially grandfathered in this Clan domain that was around even before the Camarilla and while there are some vampires who want to get rid if it, most older vampires from the established clans like it and oppose any effort to get rid of their territory.

                        Clan territory and the way younger vampires are more at the mercy of their elders in Europe, who can, and do, use banishment from Clan domain are one if the driving factors for European Anarchs. Meanwhile that isn't something that American Anarchs have to deal with, though they'd agree the practice is shitty.

                        It's one of the ways I try and make European cities a little worse and more restrictive than North American cities, since you have hundreds or even thousands of years of vampire society doing shitty things there.
                        Last edited by AnubisXy; 05-24-2022, 09:42 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CajunKhan View Post
                          Most Gangrel wander the outlands rather than the cities. They mostly feed on hitchhikers and truck drivers and people in rural diners. They're the least likely to come into conflict with other clans over hunting territory.
                          Most does not equal all. And I find that numbers are a poor way to judge how much conflict a group can come into. As such I stand by my point. Gangrel living in cities, or just coming into cities for one reason or another, are very likely to come into conflict with, for example, the Nosferatu as they would both be clans that often hunt by stalking vulnerable prey.

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                          • #14
                            They probably do, although there is enough to go around as others have commented, its going to be dangerous when multiple homeless people die around the same time because of blood loss, remember they probably aren't getting enough food so drinking from them is going to be deadly. Although the police aren't going to investigate it, the homeless will surely react to this new situation. They may begin to huddle together at night for safety and have some keep a lookout while the others sleep. They may employ strays as guard dogs or use animals as makeshift alarm systems. They may even get activists and the news involved, nothing goes more viral than the title, "Homeless under threat", or "Homeless dying in large numbers". Now the police are going to be forced to investigate, and politicians are going to jump on this topic to get more votes for upcoming elections, some may even set up a temporary neighborhood watch for the homeless.

                            This means that kindred who would usually feed on the homeless will be barred from doing so due to the large masquerade risk. It wont last forever, but it will last long enough to cause some serious issues for vampires across the city. Malkavians and nosferatu may even encroach on the domains of the other clans for blood and decrease the overall supply for everyone in the city,
                            Last edited by Hello; 05-25-2022, 12:27 PM.


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                            • #15
                              I have, over the decades, seen urban homeless populations claimed by individual Nosferatu, Malkavians, Gangrel, Ventrue, Brujah, Ravnos, and Lasombra.

                              In a similar vein (npi), I've seen mental hospitals claimed by Malkavians, Tremere, Nosferatu, Tzimisce, Ventrue, and Assamites. (Also a closeted Salubri and a Kiasyd on separate occasions.)


                              What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                              Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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