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  • Microcuchon
    started a topic Secret Lasombra

    Secret Lasombra

    Hi
    I would like to know how different ST's deal with the Lasombra who pretend to be a member of another Clan. At least two cannonical examples have been given in canon but I find hard to believe their charade would last long.
    I am considering introducing one in my game but I am not sure if it's a good idea, and if I go for it, how and how much should I deal with the PC ' s perception of it.
    Thanks for the help

  • Lysander
    replied
    Originally posted by Gurkhal View Post
    To be honest one reason to send Lasombra as infiltraitos, if we're going by general stereotype, is that Lasombra are plentiful in the Sabbat and probably have a higher percentage of people with the skills and characteristics to pull it off as opposed to the Tzimisce freaks and various Sabbat hooligans.

    A Brujah Antitribu with enough brains and discipline to do an infiltraiton would be nice. But how many of those are around a given city and can be sent on this kind of mission?

    I get your point. But the Brujah are capable of being disciplined for infiltration if it there passion and serves there goals.

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  • Gurkhal
    replied
    To be honest one reason to send Lasombra as infiltraitos, if we're going by general stereotype, is that Lasombra are plentiful in the Sabbat and probably have a higher percentage of people with the skills and characteristics to pull it off as opposed to the Tzimisce freaks and various Sabbat hooligans.

    A Brujah Antitribu with enough brains and discipline to do an infiltraiton would be nice. But how many of those are around a given city and can be sent on this kind of mission?

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  • Lysander
    replied
    Thanks for the answers about Vitel.

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  • monteparnas
    replied
    Originally posted by Lysander View Post
    What was Marcus Vitel reasons for posing as a member of another clan?
    Ease of becoming Prince of Washington DC.

    Like, really just that. He was ambitious and wanted to be Prince of an important city. If he assumed his own past and identity that would be harder to achieve.

    He had been Sabbat in the past, but abandoned the sect early, so the tie wouldn't damn him too much or anything, it would just make him too standard a Lasombra to be likely to achieve his goals in the time he wanted, specially when his eyes were in a globally relevant city.

    There was more to his story and personality, but not to the ruse itself. He was otherwise exactly what he appeared to be.

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  • Lysander
    replied
    What was Marcus Vitel reasons for posing as a member of another clan?

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  • monteparnas
    replied
    There's no law against a Lasombra being Prince, by the way. Vitel is one of the reasons "Ventrue Prince" became a thing when the core book originally intended it to be the exception. It makes some sense, but wouldn't be exceedingly problematic once he reached power, as long as he could deflate suspicions of him not being a proper Camarilla Prince.

    Otherwise... that's a really bad joke, in many levels.

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  • Shadeprowler
    replied
    Originally posted by monteparnas View Post

    That's a big part of the success of his "guise": he was a 5th gen, 2 millennia-old Roman official that barely had any contact with his own sire, posing as a 5th gen, 2 millennia-old Roman official that barely had any contact with his own sire.
    Imho, this is Infiltration 101; keep it simple and don't overcomplicate things. ^^

    Originally posted by monteparnas View Post

    Heck, at this point he could just say he thought he was Ventrue all along and that wold fly, no problem. Who's to say Sybil told him the truth two thousand years ago at the margins of a river where we can't be sure she spent more than a few nights with her childe?
    How true
    Not to mention, the Camarilla, at the end of the day, is always practical and quite pragmatic
    "Eh, okay, maybe he is a Lasombra, but did a pretty good job as a Ventrue Prince"
    Like in the old joke:

    A professor is sent to darkest Africa to live with a primitive tribe. He spends years with them, teaching them reading, writing, math and science. One day the wife of the tribe's chief gives birth to a white child. The tribe is shocked, and the chief pulls the professor aside and says, "Look here! You're the only white man we've ever seen and this woman gives birth to a white child. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what happened!" The professor replied, "No, Chief. You're mistaken. What you have here is a natural occurrence, what we in the civilized world call an albino! Look at that field over there. All of the sheep are white except for one black one. Nature does this on occasion." The chief was silent for a moment, then said, "Ok, ok, you no tell anyone, I no tell anyone."

    Lasombra? Venture?
    You no tell anyone, I no tell anyone

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  • monteparnas
    replied
    Originally posted by Lysander View Post
    What was Marcus Vital generation? Was he a member of the 5th or 6th generation?
    5th, no Diablerie. His sire, Sybil, was a direct childe of [Lasombra].

    That's a big part of the success of his "guise": he was a 5th gen, 2 millennia-old Roman official that barely had any contact with his own sire, posing as a 5th gen, 2 millennia-old Roman official that barely had any contact with his own sire.

    Powerful, old, embraced by a legend, access to 8th level powers, a low profile life until then, and it is really hard to stress too much how much Vitel's purported identity actually matches his identity.

    Heck, at this point he could just say he thought he was Ventrue all along and that wold fly, no problem. Who's to say Sybil told him the truth two thousand years ago at the margins of a river where we can't be sure she spent more than a few nights with her childe?

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  • Shadeprowler
    replied
    Lucius Aelius Sejanus aka. Marcus Vitel is a 5th one
    His Sire is Sybil

    nature

    Director


    demeanor

    Architect


    generation

    5th


    embrace

    31 CE


    apparent age

    Late 30s


    physical

    Strength 5, Dexterity 5, Stamina 8


    social

    Charisma 7, Manipulation 5, Appearance 6


    mental

    Perception 5, Intelligence 7, Wits 6


    talents

    Acting 6, Alertness 5, Athletics 5, Brawl 5, Dodge 4, Empathy 2, Intimidation 6, Leadership 6, Streetwise 2, Subterfuge 5


    skills

    Animal Ken 4, Crafts (Repair) 2, Drive 1, Etiquette 3, Melee 6, Security 1, Stealth 3, Survival 4


    knowledges

    Bureaucracy 5, Finance 2, Investigation 2, Law 4, Linguistics 5, Medicine 1, Occult 5, Politics 6, Science 1


    disciplines

    Auspex 5, Celerity 4, Dominate 5, Fortitude 5, Obfuscate 6, Obtenebration 5, Potence 4, Presence 7, Protean 5, Thaumaturgy 5, Vicissitude 3


    thaumaturgical paths

    Lure of Flames 5, Movement of the Mind 5, Weather Control 5


    backgrounds

    Allies 6, Contacts 8, Fame 1, Influence 8, Resources 6, Retainers 5, Status 6


    virtues

    Conscience 2, Self-Control 5, Courage 5


    morality

    Humanity 2


    willpower

    10


    source

    VTM: D.C. by Night, p. 84-86


    Tho' I guess since DC by Night he learned a trick or two
    In Beckett's Jyhad Diary Bell and Beckett discovered that Vitel not only survived, but had subtly gathering allies among the local Sabbat, including the influential Templar Talley. And Vitel claimed to have fled into the Abyss, leaving a simulacrum of blood and shadow that was destroyed by Bell and his allies. This sounds like some Abyss mysticism ritual to me...
    Last edited by Shadeprowler; 07-02-2022, 02:05 PM.

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  • Lysander
    replied
    What was Marcus Vital generation? Was he a member of the 5th or 6th generation?

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  • Moriaki
    replied
    Interesting, I was never aware of that.
    Thanks.

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  • monteparnas
    replied
    Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
    If the ST or PC could formulate an appropriate power for that Discipline's theme, and the ST approved of it, then it could be done.
    More than could, description-wise even now the text usually suggests that you create your own powers instead of just relying on the list. Despite most people not doing it, this is the declared intention.

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  • Black Fox
    replied
    Originally posted by Shadeprowler View Post
    But in this case I strongly suspect, he simply "invented" that one
    Yep, in the early game, any Disciplines above level 5 were individual powers the vampire learned/created. The specific powers of individual characters who had them were just examples of what could be done. It relied on the ST (and possibly the PC if they ever rose above 7th generation) to figure them out. However, once actual ten ranks of each Discipline was provided, many players assume that's just all there was. If there were other options provided at levels 6 or 7 or whatever, then that's what was available and nothing else. But that wasn't the case. If the ST or PC could formulate an appropriate power for that Discipline's theme, and the ST approved of it, then it could be done.

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  • Shadeprowler
    replied
    Originally posted by Moriaki View Post
    Out of curiosity, what obfuscate power is Vitel using?
    Except for 'Create name' which is lvl 9, none of the powers seem to be able to hide one's lineage like that.
    Mind blank and/or cloak would certainly help, but wouldn't suffice.
    Vitel's extra level of Obfuscate allows him to cloak his lineage, whether mystically or otherwise.
    It's a personally developed power
    Either "made" a new power or modified an existing one (in this case probbaly the Soul Mask (Disguise your aura to appear differently or not at all) power)
    But in this case I strongly suspect, he simply "invented" that one
    You see Cainites of seventh or lower generation may learn Elder Discipline Powers of six to ten dots, with the maximum rating of a Discipline restricted to 13 minus their generation. At such levels the potency of Discipline powers increase greatly, and characters no longer must follow a uniform progression but can choose from a variety of powers available at any one level or even invent their own powers that suit their tactics.

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