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  • Overfeeding result

    In short i didn't see any real rule about overfeeding except the eventual humanity test.
    In some case vampires can absorb more blood point than they can keep and it seems like the book only say that he won't gain anything but he's actually drinking blood anyway

    I don't like the idea of a vampire in frenzy feeding again and again even when full and it has not effect.

    I've got few idea: roll stamina to not vomiting, loose dices, the frenzy last longer...

    What would/have you done for this case?

  • #2
    The rules make sense because they're dead bodies. They have no real metabolism for the blood they ingest that could be overloaded by the overfeeding, it's just like filling a cup above the brim: sure, you'll loose liquid and make a mess, but the cup won't feel anything.

    I just have them change in frenzy when full from feeding to seeking shelter to sleep. But given how easy it is for them to use blood for effects even in frenzy, that may take some time. Otherwise, that's exactly how a frenzy ends.


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    • #3
      I imagined that when vampire drink blood they digest it. It become vitae after that. Depending on the prey the vampire feed on he produce more or less vitae.

      So with that in mind i imagined that if they feed until full and go beyond their body would be unable to produce more vitae, the blood would become useless in their body and they would have to get rid of it in the same way that humans vomit or get sick when they eat too much
      Because if they don't produce vitae beyond their capacity what happen to the gallons of blood they drank? It cannot just disappear from their organism

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      • #4
        I'm not sure why a vampire would overfeed to be honest. If it's a blood frenzy, the frenzy would stop if they filled themselves. The only thing that comes to mind would be if vampire would like to consume blood that is laced with something but is already full. I'm not sure I would punish a player by giving them penalties for that. Besides it would be really easy to just buff a stat and get "room" for the blood.

        So what would be the point in trying to overfeed?

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        • #5
          There's no point, but that doesn't stop people from overeating or addicts from overdosing, right?

          As for overfeeding, there's only so many blood points a vampire can metabolize into vitae. The rest just fills up the body-jar of the vampire, and probably isn't a very nice sight when it splurts out. I vaguely remember something about the large quantity of animal blood required and how that impacts feeding, but I can't place where I read it.

          Edit: I think if you wanted to, you could treat consumed BPs that go over capacity as 'food', with the same results that a vampire would have when they try to consume food or drink without the Merit.
          Last edited by voidshaper; 09-13-2022, 02:28 PM.

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          • #6
            If it were in my chronicle, I would rule that vampires can "overfeed" and consume more blood than they need, but that the vampire effectively spends Blood Points in order to keep feeding. That is what makes the room available for more blood to be consumed.

            The vampire spends as many Blood Points as needed to keep feeding (within the rules), but she never gains any advantage more than what is allowed by the mechanics. So at some point, the blood pool is being spent for no possible benefit. It's a big waste of blood, but if the vampire wants to do it for any reason, this is how I'd run the scene.

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            • #7
              Biologically and physically speaking is imposible that the equivalent of 250 ml of human blood could keep a vampire properly feed because there is not enough nutrients.

              But vampires defy the laws of nature. Drinking blood for them is a "ritual" to sate the beast and the blood a "sacrifice".


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              • #8
                Originally posted by MrNatas View Post
                I'm not sure why a vampire would overfeed to be honest. If it's a blood frenzy, the frenzy would stop if they filled themselves. The only thing that comes to mind would be if vampire would like to consume blood that is laced with something but is already full. I'm not sure I would punish a player by giving them penalties for that. Besides it would be really easy to just buff a stat and get "room" for the blood.

                So what would be the point in trying to overfeed?
                For pleasure, if my memory is correct it's a reason for loosing humanity. In addition some vampire suffer mental illness that make them feed more than they can. Theft of vitae with enough success can give more blood point than the vampire can have if they didn't spend their blood before.
                The reasons are numerous but it is the consequence that interests me. Treat excess blood point as food is the most obvious but don't you think it's possible to make the character fall under a state of drunkenness? Losing 1 die per blood excess blood point in their organism? I mean the same state of euphoria the beast can provoke after a diablerie but obviously less powerful

                Something like lose a die per exceeding blood point (wich cannot be used of course, the character never exceed their max blood reserve) and immediatly roll self-control with a difficulty of +1 per exceeding blood point maximum 10. If The Vampire feed for more blood points than his stamina he immediatly vomit everything for an entire round.
                Or something else
                Last edited by Cain Loup-Noir; 09-13-2022, 06:04 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cain Loup-Noir View Post

                  For pleasure, if my memory is correct it's a reason for loosing humanity. In addition some vampire suffer mental illness that make them feed more than they can. Theft of vitae with enough success can give more blood point than the vampire can have if they didn't spend their blood before.
                  The reasons are numerous but it is the consequence that interests me. Treat excess blood point as food is the most obvious but don't you think it's possible to make the character fall under a state of drunkenness? Losing 1 die per blood excess blood point in their organism? I mean the same state of euphoria the beast can provoke after a diablerie but obviously less powerful

                  Something like lose a die per exceeding blood point (wich cannot be used of course, the character never exceed their max blood reserve) and immediatly roll self-control with a difficulty of +1 per exceeding blood point maximum 10. If The Vampire feed for more blood points than his stamina he immediatly vomit everything for an entire round.
                  Or something else
                  I think you are not getting what I am saying by "overfeeding."

                  Lets say that a vampire is full on blood (pool at 10) but they want to feed. What would stop a vampire from pumping their blood into their physical body (buff their strength, stamina, of dexterity) to get room from more blood? Why would they ever want to need in a state of being over the max? That's what I mean. At anytime a vampire can gain room to feed more and has no reason to hold on to excess poll. Even more so if mechanically there is a downside to it.

                  I understand that the act of feeding is pleasurable but, flushing blood out so that you can have more room for more blood is always an option.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cain Loup-Noir View Post
                    I imagined that when vampire drink blood they digest it. It become vitae after that. Depending on the prey the vampire feed on he produce more or less vitae.

                    So with that in mind i imagined that if they feed until full and go beyond their body would be unable to produce more vitae, the blood would become useless in their body and they would have to get rid of it in the same way that humans vomit or get sick when they eat too much
                    Because if they don't produce vitae beyond their capacity what happen to the gallons of blood they drank? It cannot just disappear from their organism
                    They do not metabolize, not in the sense a living being do. They're dead. The vampire body changes so much from the living one that they're actually like sponges for blood: the core book states (or used to state, I don't remember if V20 still does) that instead of going through the shrank digestive system, or going to their veins, blood crawls through the vampire's body through osmosis, being at their full control to send it here or there.

                    Vitae is a mystic force, it isn't blood. It is extracted from blood through the mystic symbolism of the vampire, not by a biological process. It has never been a biological process. Inside a vampire it both exists within the blood and beyond it, but it becomes clearer with Ghouls: they digest Kindred blood. They truly digest it, just as normal blood, it becomes poop. The vitae stays as a mystic force, the blood doesn't really lasts long. It is also clear when you look at Low Generations, they contain far more vitae than the blood content of a human body, yet they don't show signs of bloat for containing so much blood, do they? An 8th Gen vampire with a full 15 BP pool isn't soaked in red fluids with half as much blood as a human should have.

                    Wherever this blood went to, it isn't physically inside the vampire. The book also says as much (and that I remember reading in V20). It either got flushed out through pores, eyes and other orifices during "over" feeding, or yes, it did got destroyed into nothingness. Whatever it is, the same applies to anyone overfeeding in frenzy, if that does happen.


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                    • #11
                      I kind of like the idea of habitual overfeeding leading to vampires like Pearl in Blade. They don't get any actual benefit from drinking more blood than their system can hold, but they swell up like ticks and it could eventually lead to serious disfigurement and mobility issues.

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                      • #12
                        If a vampire overfeeds and refuses to stop, at a certain point they will pop like a tick or mosquito. This is very gross for everybody around them at the time.

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                        • #13
                          So basically the flesh of the vampire "absorb" the blood that become vitae. But it doesn't mean they don't have vitae in the form of blood in their veins, so when a vampire feed on another the "blood vitae" is re-created by his flesh until there's no more in their organism if i understand correctly

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                          • #14
                            V5 has a simple solution: no matter what is your Hunger level, draining completely a human will get you to Hunger 0. So, there's no such thing as "overfeeding"; the Vampire can ingest blood infinitely, and what can't become Vitae ("Blood Points" in V4 or before) because the vampire is already full, simply vanish when entering their body (still giving the same pleasure of Feeding).

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cain Loup-Noir View Post
                              So basically the flesh of the vampire "absorb" the blood that become vitae. But it doesn't mean they don't have vitae in the form of blood in their veins, so when a vampire feed on another the "blood vitae" is re-created by his flesh until there's no more in their organism if i understand correctly
                              Kind of.

                              Maybe it isn't recreated, it's just that the intent of the Kiss attracts the blood. It is hard to know, but the basic gist of it is that, yes.

                              Also the volume of blood in a vampire's body is directly stated to be equal to that of an equivalent human body, so lower Gen vampires "condense" Vitae, but not blood, draining roughly at a pace of 1 Vitae per 250 ml of mortal blood, but then storing it as 1 Vitae per 125, 70 ml and so on, discarding the excess "depleted" fluid. That's why Elder Vitae is frequently found in smaller vessels.

                              This is even more weird when you consider two rules together: animals have less Vitae in them because of their blood being mystically less potent, so it means a higher volume to make 1 BP (probably then condensed inside the vampire's body as per low Gens). But also, the rate of feeding is measured in BP, not volume, so in a round a vampire can drain 3 BP of a cow that has 5 BP total comprising its roughly 32 Liters of blood, that means roughly 19 Liters of blood drained in a single action, when it would be 750 ml from an adult human. More than 5 gallons of blood flowing throw a bite wound under 3 seconds!

                              Originally posted by Timecrafter View Post
                              V5 has a simple solution
                              Not for the matter at hand.

                              The basic question is about the fate of the actual fluid physically taken by the character, and V5 doesn't address that more than V20. Actually less, but that's not a problem, it's hard to say if the lack of description is worse than the consequences of the previous description taken to the extreme.

                              At the end of the day it's up to the ST to describe what happens to the liquid, and almost any answer is valid. The OP proposal doesn't seem interesting or necessary to me, yet even that is good enough if it helps the specific game. And that's just as valid, easy and vague in any edition.


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