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  • #16
    A Gargoyle Prince is intriguing.

    Their new Clan Weakness in DAV20 (pg 97 in the public document) would greatly favor the highly social position of a Prince.

    If a powerful Gargoyle has embraced a great deal of loyal prodigy (possibly as a way of dealing with said new Weakness), they could take the city from a hostile Prince (especially an abussive Tremere Prince), and hold it.

    Visceratika makes a great defense against Obfuscated spies and assailants in their Havens or Elysium.

    And no common Prince can travel around their Domain with such ease as one with Flight.

    As in regards to their published high level Disciplines, a lot of those effects have been made exceessible at lower levels as Gargoyle Rituals in DAV20. They are convered into Disciplines of the same value when taught. I'd personaly advise treating them as alternative basic levels of Visceratika.

    Either way, for ideas of alternative high level Visceratika powers, you can always look to other shape-shifting powers for inspiration (or just ripe off with some minor "skinning").

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    • #17
      One big area of difficulty for a Gargoyle Prince is their social prowess. Obviously, they have no Clan social Disciplines.

      I think a wise Gargoyle with political ambitions would do well to find a Mentor to learn Presence, first. It works on Vampires of lower Generation and doesn't have the risk of striping the creativity of it's repeated targets.

      Gargoyles with the new Weakness are no longer required to have a zero Appearance, and they can attractive, if strange, in appearance.

      Their secondary Weakness of a Weak Will is still in effect, and any mental defenses they can summon would probably be a good idea, though harder to access on average.

      Path of Blood's Blood of Potency
      can help with direct encounters with Dominating, lower Generation Vampires.

      The Iron Will Merit might be a good investment, and would be appropriate for one of such rare ambition.

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      • #18
        In general gargoyles have been presented as too simpleminded and bestial (remember, their pre-death identities and memories get mostly washed away by the embrace) to manage the political juggling act needed to become a Prince. Even the few who have the intellect/personalities for it are going to be hampered by the major clans not respecting them. Plus there's that clan weakness that makes them extra vulnerable to Dominate, which most politically-saavy vampires are going to possess.

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        • #19


          Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post
          In general gargoyles have been presented as too simpleminded and bestial (remember, their pre-death identities and memories get mostly washed away by the embrace) to manage the political juggling act needed to become a Prince.
          Eh. You can say the same thing about Brujah, and countless other Clans.

          House of Tremere, and other sources have noted many capable leaders in the Gargoyle Bloodline. The average means little, especially since the very situation we are discussing is an exceptional individual tackling a position of power that demands exceptionalism.

          Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post
          Even the few who have the intellect/personalities for it are going to be hampered by the major clans not respecting them.
          Yeah. It depends on the City, the politics at hand, and the power this one Gargoyle has, both political and personal.

          It is more likely to happen in a city with little entrenchment of old Clan status quo. Perhaps a good city for this to occur in would be one that was held by Sabbat for a period of time, with few Elders and a lot more impressionable Neonates.

          Then again, many of the books have shown cities of all types that have undergone odd changes and shakeups and have would up with odd forms of government and odd governors.

          Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post
          Plus there's that clan weakness that makes them extra vulnerable to Dominate, which most politically-saavy vampires are going to possess.
          That one is not as limiting as it first seems, especially if the Gargoyle in question has a low Generation.

          It is not a good move to openly Dominate a Prince in their Domain (let alone in Elysium), so even if you have the power you are going to need to be subtle.

          The most likely Vampires to dominate a Prince are the ancient Players in the Jyhad, and unless they mistaken you for someone else’s puppet, one of them is going to eventually Dominate and subjugate you subtly anyway, penalty or no. Almost all Princes in this setting eventually winde up as chess pieces, regardless of Clan.

          It surprisingly has little sway over a Princes' position.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post
            In general gargoyles have been presented as too simpleminded and bestial (remember, their pre-death identities and memories get mostly washed away by the embrace) to manage the political juggling act needed to become a Prince. Even the few who have the intellect/personalities for it are going to be hampered by the major clans not respecting them. Plus there's that clan weakness that makes them extra vulnerable to Dominate, which most politically-saavy vampires are going to possess.
            In the past Camarilla LARPs, free Gargoyles have hid out among th Nos. I think though most had been embraced into the line. Though I'm not sure.
            I was undr the impression blood bond , dominate, a few Thaum rituals is what kept them on the chain.e


            If you want By Night Studios to release new LARP RULES for NWoD,
            like this post.

            [ATTACH=CONFIG]temp_62_1418088885567_853[/ATTACH]

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            • #21
              I'm sure all those methods help, but I'd say being an effective tabula rasa, who's been indoctrinated into servitude if the character wasn't a free gargoyle embrace, is the biggest hurdle. From a psychological standpoint they're the equivalent of the Sabbat's Blood Brothers, with the added difficulty that they can't pass for human at all without fairly heavy investment in an out-of-clan discipline.

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