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How many discipline per turn?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Telgar View Post
    Speaking isn't an action. And activating Majesty should be an action. How is it clearly not one? Having it be active isn't an action, obviously, nor is Awe. But the act of turning on the power should take a full turn. Same for Command. You're spending a full action to engage in eye contact, summon your mental brain-whammy and command them. You can't Command someone to "Freeze!" and then steal their wallet in the same turn. Using Dominate 1 takes the entire turn.
    Why should activating Majesty be an action? You're not doing anything, there's not even a dice roll, you just manifest the power through sheer force of will.
    Last edited by Lys; 09-02-2015, 07:18 PM.

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    • #17
      You're activating a Discipline, a supernatural ability. Those shouldn't just pop on and off for free.


      I'm a professor! Why is no one listening to me?!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Telgar View Post
        You're activating a Discipline, a supernatural ability. Those shouldn't just pop on and off for free.
        Unless the book I'm using to run the game says it requires an action, I'm not going to penalize my players by requiring one.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Telgar View Post
          You're activating a Discipline, a supernatural ability. Those shouldn't just pop on and off for free.
          There's no inherent logic to this.

          Disciplines are explicitly something that range from reflexive actions that require nothing but instinct, to long drawn out endeavors that can take months to make happen.

          The fact that they're supernatural abilities clearly does not directly correlate to a period of time, or even an amount of effort, to turn them on. How long, and how much, it takes to use one is consistently variable based on what the power actually does.

          Dominate 1 takes less time and effort than Dominate 2 or 3. Not because Dominate 1 is less supernatural. But because it's simpler.

          And Majesty isn't free. It costs 1 WP.

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          • #20
            Discipline activation is notoriously fuzzy on the specifics. It comes down to Storyteller judgment. The way Potence works for instance, to enjoy the benefits of automatic successes for a turn you need to spend a point of blood to activate it. If that took an entire action or turn to achieve then Potence would be useless. Also, if we were to forbid the activation of multiple Disciplines in a turn, then the good old Celerity + Potence combo would not work.

            Time is another important factor. Slow Disciplines like Dominate 2 that require full concentration would in my mind take up the entire turn. Someone growing Protean claws would not be able to use them on the same turn, but might squeeze in another Discipline use.

            The rules seem to suggest that you can crank out as many physical effects per turn as you can, limited by your character's blood points per turn and the 1 Willpower/turn rule. Social and Mental Disciplines are limited to one use per turn unless you possess the Thaumaturgy Path The Focused Mind, which would allow you to make two mental actions in one turn. There's always an exception to a rule it seems


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            • #21
              Originally posted by Innocent Flower View Post
              awe wouldn't use a full action. Command wouldn't use a full action. You smuggle these into other actions like dancing, conversation, walking or whatever.

              I do really agree that they need to put some more info on this though.


              I know you can't stack multiple discipline uses with celerity, but can one use a single discipline use in a celerity turn? Say I need to first dodge and then use x, could I do that?

              Another thought

              If you're holding/held by someone, can you grow claws into them?

              I'm not give this option, you can't use Celerity for no malus disciplines, my rules is, if the discipline need a roll ( like bonecrafting in a clinch ) than this is an action... than it suffer from multiple action penalities.

              But i don't like it too much so i search for another way to handle this problem...

              And for Protean Claw, it's just write in the rules tehy need a full turn to be complete...
              Last edited by Rettile&Blitch; 09-04-2015, 07:37 AM.

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              • #22
                I use the Blood Point per turn chart.
                Max. Trait Blood Pool BP/Turn
                4th 9 50 10
                5th 8 40 8
                6th 7 30 6
                7th 6 20 5
                8th 5 15 3
                9th 5 14 2
                10th 5 13 1
                11th 5 12 1
                12th 5 11 1
                13th+ 5 10 1
                This keeps a balance between Anarch and Elder. Anarch need the numbers when taking on an Elder.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Black Ushkar View Post
                  I use the Blood Point per turn chart.


                  This keeps a balance between Anarch and Elder. Anarch need the numbers when taking on an Elder.
                  You forgot the Thin Bloods. Here's a more complete chart, along with my character creation notes:

                  Gen Capacity Hungry per turn trait max
                  Dhampir 10 n/a 1 5
                  15 6+4 2 1 5
                  14 8+2 2 1 5
                  13 10 2 1 5
                  12 11 2 1 5
                  11 12 2 1 5
                  10 13 2 1 5
                  9 14 3 2 5
                  8 15 3 3 5
                  7 20 4 4 6
                  6 30 7 6 7
                  5 40 9 8 8
                  4 50 12 10 9
                  3 ? ? ? 10

                  14th generation vampires can’t use the last 2 points of their blood pool for anything but waking up or feeding others, half the time are automatically Caitiff, may have Insight background, may only have Disciplines up to 4th level. They get 3 bonus freebie on top of the regular amount. All are on Humanity. None may have Status. They only start with 2 dots of Disciplines, 6/5/3 attributes, 12/8/5 abilities. Simply being one is a 2 point Flaw. They get 5 Backgrounds as usual. They have access to ALL Disciplines, so you can put dots in any you like.

                  15th generation vampires take lethal damage from sunlight, blood expenditures are doubled. May not spend last 4 blood points on anything but waking up or feeding others, cannot create blood bonds, get Eat Food merit for free, can have Insight background which allows them to see into the ST’s metaplot , and cannot sire childer but may procreate to have dhampir. Pregnancies spontaneously abort half the time. Can’t create a ghoul. May only have Disciplines up to 3rd level. They get 3 bonus freebie on top of the regular amount. All are on Humanity. Simply being one is a 7 point Flaw. None may have Status. They only start with 2 dots of Disciplines, 6/5/3 attributes, 12/8/5 abilities. They get 5 Backgrounds as usual. They have access to ALL Disciplines, so you can put dots in any you like.

                  Dhampirs/revenants (16th generation) can only get up to 1 level of any Discipline unless they have a vampire blood donor/regnant of 9-10th generation (level 2), 7-8th (level 3), 5-6th (level 4), 4th (level 5). They regenerate 1 blood point each day. They can spend all their blood points in any way they wish, but they can’t create blood bonds, sire childer, and they don’t have to spend blood to stay active, don’t take damage from sunlight or halve piercing/bludgeoning damage. All are on Humanity. They do frenzy, but their difficulties are reduced by 3. They can soak Lethal damage. To regrow a limb, they must spend 1 Willpower and roll Stamina (8), failure means can’t ever regrow it. 1 point of blood for a finger, 3 for a full limb. They are immune to Rotschreck. 6/4/3 attributes, 11/7/4 abilities, 1 Potence, 1 any Discipline, 3 extra freebie points. They get 5 Backgrounds as usual. These don’t come into existence until the 1970’s when they are born.



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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Telgar View Post
                    I make life easy: one Discipline activation per turn. Some Disciplines (Fortitude, Potence) are entirely passive and don't need to be "activated" and others are activated and remain "online" for quite a while, meaning you can activate another one the next turn. But any power that needs to be "turned on" takes up your entire turn. No growing Protean Claws and attacking on the same turn. No Dominating 3 people in the same turn by splitting your pool. It just makes life a lot easier. Discipline rules are already stupidly complicated. No need to include the also-stupid multiple action system in the chaos.

                    Why couldn't you activate claws and attack? you can split actions and such at the very least. I count activation as a mental action and attacking as your physical one. Also, the Focused Mind path level four actually touches on this a lot. It's my understanding you essentially have a mental and physical action a round, mental is usually discipline activation (like obfuscate and thaumaturgy), while physical actions are just that: physical actions- running, attacking, hiding, so on and so forth. Physical disciplines are usually on always, or additionally, in celerity's case, not bound by blood point per turn restrictions; so i let it be activated as a 'free action' (using some d&d terms here, sorry), based on the concept that you could of spent blood on other things and still can activate it. No other power lets you do that AT ALL (Protean and Obten. specifically say you have to spend blood over turns till prereq. amounts have been met if you can't afford three in one turn, for instance).

                    I also agree with Jeebers76 on you being too restrictive, as a side note

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                    • #25
                      This can all be resolved by reading the section on various types of actions and the time it takes to perform them.

                      Ultimately it's the Storyteller's prerogative on how much time a given action takes. Some disciplines are clearly written to imply that their activation are reflective actions, while others are simple actions. Reflective actions take nothing more than a thought (spending vitae to increase stats is a given example). Simple actions can take anywhere from 3 seconds to 3 minutes, depending on how the ST rules that scene to play out. (Both Dominate 1 and 2 are simple actions but they may need different amounts of time to perform).

                      Edit: the only game limitation on the number of actions you may take can be found in the multiple actions rules for dividing your dice pools. Otherwise, reflexive actions take no time at all and are only limited by what the ST says is possible.
                      Last edited by PazuzuAxelf; 11-02-2018, 02:50 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Knivesthebrutal View Post
                        Why couldn't you activate claws and attack?
                        It sounded like because it is easier for them to simplify the rules around it. Though, this is a rather old thread.

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