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What's the blood pool on the other monsters in cWoD?

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  • #31
    Actually, there are some interesting stories about children conceived by ghosts in mythology.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
      Actually, there are some interesting stories about children conceived by ghosts in mythology.

      Maybe some sort of combo of Arcanoi with like 5 in Embody and something else to make the ghost more, well, alive for long enough. There's still Puppetry. There was also that take on Wraith for the New World of Darkness. Dang, now I need to find that. There were lots of things made possible with some of the powers, particularly with possession, allowing for the ghost to eventually transform the person they were possessing. Swapping gender, making the person look entirely different, demonic, like the ghost when they were alive, etc. There's a lot of potential for interesting stories like that, but generally, I don't think Embody should allow for such a thing. As a rare case? Okay, maybe.

      Also, I think we've totally drifted off-topic now. ô_ô

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      • #33
        So, the books actually cover most of the questions here. The Revised Storyteller's Handbook says vampires can draw 25 Blood Points from Lupines, though it increases the vampire's difficulty for Frenzy; that Changelings, Hunters, and Mages have the normal 10 Blood Points (but may cause hallucinations); and wraiths can't be fed upon without the proper Necromancy Path. The Mummy core book (player's guide?) claims that vampires get a mouthful of pure resurrection energy, which tastes awful and hurts worse. Risen just get really, really pissed that some filthy vampire bit them.

        There's also rules for ghouling/blood bonding, but that's neither here nor there,

        And about Embody... Official Deadguy answer is that wraiths can impregnate/get pregnant while using Embody 5, but horrible, terrible things happen if the Embody slips for even a moment. Given the cost of maintaining it, horrible, terrible things will happen before a mother can come to term. All a wraith's ...fluids... disappear immediately when Materialize falls. This includes even if a child is conceived, born, raised - when the Materialize stops, all traces of the wraith disappear. The child just... dies.

        Wraith is not a happy game for characters that act like they never died.

        Cheers!


        If you don't use an Oxford comma, I feel bad for you, son,
        'Cuz I got ninety-nine problems, but clarity ain't one.

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        • #34
          I think that I would rule slightly differently after the material leaves the wraith, but that is just me. Either way, a child born of a wraith mother would be a one-in-a-billion event.

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          • #35
            If a Wraith can get all the way through a pregnancy using Embody 5, then it stands to reason a Vampire would be able to feed off of them without the use of Necromancy. The question is though, whether or not said Vampire will get Blood Points from it.



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            • #36
              I would be fine with the Vampire gaining Blood Points as long as the Wraith loses Corpus.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                I would be fine with the Vampire gaining Blood Points as long as the Wraith loses Corpus.
                Vampires need blood to give them life. Wraiths are dead. I'd rule that there's no nourishment whatsoever.

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                • #38
                  Yep. Except for Nagaraja using death magic to drain a wraith, and even then what they're technically getting is supernatural power, not nourishment that can be used to rise each day.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by nothing View Post
                    And about Embody... Official Deadguy answer is that wraiths can impregnate/get pregnant while using Embody 5, but horrible, terrible things happen if the Embody slips for even a moment. Given the cost of maintaining it, horrible, terrible things will happen before a mother can come to term. All a wraith's ...fluids... disappear immediately when Materialize falls. This includes even if a child is conceived, born, raised - when the Materialize stops, all traces of the wraith disappear. The child just... dies.

                    Wraith is not a happy game for characters that act like they never died.

                    Cheers!
                    So lets take the easy example of a male wraith Embodied with a consort, having unprotected sex. It's possible for conception to occur as quickly as 30 minutes after climax, which means while the odds are low, it is possible for a ghostly sperm to fuse with a living egg to make a zygote. However Cell division doesnt begin for another 24 hours or so.

                    So here's where we need to consider some options. By your interpretation the moment a wraith disembodies, all traces of them dissappear (a nasty surprise for a vampire who fills up their blood pool on embodied wraith blood!). So it stand to reason that the genetic material from the ghost dad disappears too and you're left wih a nonviable cell.

                    But lets say for arguments sake that the ghost can remain embodied long enough for the cell to start dividing? (25 successes at least... Or multiple uses of the power)

                    At that point the cell begins to copy itself and is more properly a new genetic life (and I say this as a pro-choice individual - not trying to be political here), copying the genetic code of the father and replicating it.

                    I feel like this scenario would be a case where what constitutes the wraith's "material" and what belongs to the developing zygote isn't so clear cut. It would be an interesting origin for an npc or pc, and they would be rare enough I think that saying "nope - they will die as soon as daddy disappears" is a little more restrictive than is necessary.

                    There are a lot of hurdles to overcome: Embody 5 and its costs, needing a Consort who you are romantically attached to (ideally), catching them during ovulation (tricky), actually fertilizing the egg (not very likely even for healthy sperm), actually having the pregnancy carry to term (only something like a 25% likelyhood when accounting for early term miscarraiges)...

                    Basically its a narrative contrivance if it does happen anyway. Granted it would be MUCH tougher for a female ghost to stay embodied through a whole pregancy, but hey, I imagine having a baby growing inside you is worth some insane Pathos...

                    In any case, remember that for all the bleakness and angst, Wraith is also a game about Hope.

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                    • #40
                      This raises another question. Female Wraith, Embodies as a male... Can they impregnate a woman and "father" a child, following that line of thought?

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                      • #41
                        I would only allow it if said wraith was of male gender. But then why not?


                        So, this Zen Master walks up to a hot dog stand and says: "Make me one with everything!"

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                        • #42
                          A wraith is dead. They have no spark of life. Allowing wraiths to have offspring with humans is a) so athematic I wouldn't allow it; and b) so ridiculous I wouldn't allow it either. Creating new life goes against everything that is Wraith, IMO. It's like letting players come back to life permanently. The whole point is that you've lost your life and can't ever get it back except for brief, fleeting, painful moments. Creating offspring just ignores that for something 'cool'. Now, could a Malfean inhabit an embryo to create devil spawn? Maybe that would be more appropriate, but this is the World of Darkness, so everyone would want to kill it with fire.

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                          • #43
                            RebelWithoutAClan I agree that Wraith is a game about hope, but it's also a game about reconciliation and moving on. It only gets bleak when characters can't or won't do so. As for all the SCIENCE!, I just regurgitated from what I remember, but even then, an attuned Wraith can only Materialize for one hour per success, and each use of Embody 5 costs 3 Pathos and 1 Willpower. Even if using Maintain the Material Form (which costs 2 Pathos and failure sends the Wraith back across the Shroud), that Wraith is going to run out of Willpower (or Pathos, and go into a Harrowing) fast. Even under ideal conditions like you mentioned, and all the Wraith's focus of Passions and Fetters in that room, and even twisting the optional rule where Shadows can "cash in" a point of Permanent Angst to refill their Temporary pool to have it apply to a Wraith's Willpower, a Wraith can remain Materialized for about a week.

                            The Dreamweaver Embody... doesn't work that way. Wraiths can Embody as an "idealized version" of herself, at best. But let's head this off before it begins: this discussion is not equipped to deal with body/identity politics, though the game itself certainly is. Maybe start a new thread in the Wraith forum?

                            At any rate, narrative concerns trump rules, in my opinion. It's all about how much mileage I can get out of it.

                            Plus, didn't one of the other game lines have a Merit or something about the character being conceived by a ghost, either Embody or Skin-riding, and it made them a super-special "Chosen One?" Mage? Euthanatos or Bahtani, maybe?

                            Cheers!

                            † Assuming 10 successes on every Maintain the Material Form roll adds 10 hours. Also assuming 10 successes on the Materialize roll equals 10 hours. Assume a Willpower of 10 (and Willpower cannot reach zero, because that automatically ends the Materialize as the Wraith falls into a Harrowing). A Wraith can Materialize for 180 hours before spending that last point of Willpower (and cannot regain Willpower by Slumber, as a Wraith must "fade" into a Fetter). If following a twisted version of the optional "cash-in" rule, a Wraith can Materialize for about 3 months (if my maths are correct - which they probably aren't).


                            If you don't use an Oxford comma, I feel bad for you, son,
                            'Cuz I got ninety-nine problems, but clarity ain't one.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by nothing View Post
                              Embody... doesn't work that way. Wraiths can Embody as an "idealized version" of herself, at best. But let's head this off before it begins: this discussion is not equipped to deal with body/identity politics, though the game itself certainly is. Maybe start a new thread in the Wraith forum?
                              It's been a while and I do know I sometimes crisscross details from Wraith: The Arising, a fan game with it's own set of rules that was intended as a way to bring the game into the New World of Darkness, at least so I remember. Still, with Moliate and Embody and/or some other Arcanos, I can't imagine a ghost would be incapable of popping up as something scary, or as an entirely different looking person. At any rate, I hear you on moving this off-topic discussion over to the Wraith section.

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                              • #45
                                tl;dr
                                Mechanics for vampires drinking from Risen are on page 29 of Risen, in the sidebar "Don't Eat or Be Eaten."


                                This is what happens when an Abyssal Exalted ends up in H.o.L.
                                (Also known as "Derpwraith" and "PretentiousFontsGuy
                                ").

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