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  • IgnyteZero
    started a topic Vampire: tM 5th Edition

    Vampire: tM 5th Edition

    Ok, so at this years Grand Masquerade and 24 Years Anniversy of V:tm, White Wolf Publishing made it official that the next V:tm rpg will is the 5th edition of the game, and will hopefully be released sometime Winter 2018.

    What else we know so far about Vampire: the Masquerade 5th Edition, facts:

    * Disciplines and Feeding will work by the "You are what you eat"-philosophy.
    * Core institutions and concepts like "The Camarilla", "the Beast" and others will have have changed or shifted in meaning or operation in varying degrees.
    * The metaplot for 5th edition will start right before the event known as Gehenna.
    * The game (and it's mechanics?) will treat humans not as blood bags but as individuals that matter.
    * All licensees of the franchise will get the same "bible" to help unify the world and game universe. Helps the metaplot stay relevant and consistent.
    * Metaplot progress will focus on real life players being the main characters. Transmedia will be a huge focus.

    Rumors:
    * Humans might be more aware of the prescence of supernatural entities and dangers in the world.
    * There might have been a war among Vampires for the graves of the ancients

    Something I missed from what's been said now or previously?





    Last edited by IgnyteZero; 09-05-2016, 12:15 PM.

  • Darksider
    replied
    This thread has run it's course. Closed.

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  • adambeyoncelowe
    replied
    Well, it seems true that WoD is highlighting bigoted views. They're certainly swirling to the top of the cesspool here...

    Time to leave the thread before it goes further south...

    Leave a comment:


  • loomer
    replied
    I don't really think there's a problem with privilege discourse, when used in its original context. It's a pretty old one at this point, and the 'certain groups' Beckett mentions who invented it were inventing it for a specific sociological and anthropological purpose.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fat Larry
    replied
    Edited: Because why bother...
    Last edited by Fat Larry; 10-05-2016, 05:08 PM.

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  • ChristopherZacher
    replied
    Edited, don't want to get involved with this lol

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  • IgnyteZero
    replied
    Originally posted by Beckett View Post
    The thing about "bigotry" is, that it is, a lot of the times very much in the eye of the beholder, and especially in the western world, but particularly in the states, it's just as much a term for unfair inequality as it is a lame shield to protect an increasing degree in insecurity and over sensitivity in the receiver, rather than anything the giver did. We also have a absolutely horrible tendency to view our society, social norms, culture, etc. . . as better, wiser, smarter, or otherwise higher, and use that as a form of righteous condemnation of others who do not do as we do, but also to take things we experience or encounter and incorrectly assume they apply universally, or even much more common than they do.

    It's made worse by certain groups inventing, (and often outright falsifying), terms like "privilege", which can be extremely offensive and assumes a lie that other people's troubles are less than your own, if not outright blaming others. There was, for example, an article some time ago that basically referred to white men playing the game of life "on safe mode", because they couldn't possibly deal with the stuff that non-white, non-male, non-straight folks had to endure. So like I was saying, some forms of bigotry are viewed by some as acceptable, if not encouraged.

    It's incompetence like that person in the crowd trying to force their intolerance on the crowd and the panel staff, who wanted to try to pinpoint one aspect of the game, but patently ignored other, much more major similar concepts like say the Black Furies that basically contradict their entire point. I mean, come on, hat's more sexist and extremist, a group that tends not to select members from a sex or a group that outright slaughters a sex, abandons their own children if they are born with the wrong junk, and makes it a religious practice to kill a member of one gender periodically?

    PS: Just for the record, I'd absolutely love a book about Jews kicking ass with special cool kabbalah powers. Take my money. :P

    (In all honesty and fairness, I can see your point, if it's written from the perspective of the Nazi's, but, even then, that still seems pretty damn awesome, and I want it.)
    Thank you for bringing some nuance into the topic. Much needed.
    Last edited by IgnyteZero; 10-05-2016, 07:13 AM.

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  • Beckett
    replied
    The thing about "bigotry" is, that it is, a lot of the times very much in the eye of the beholder, and especially in the western world, but particularly in the states, it's just as much a term for unfair inequality as it is a lame shield to protect an increasing degree in insecurity and over sensitivity in the receiver, rather than anything the giver did. We also have a absolutely horrible tendency to view our society, social norms, culture, etc. . . as better, wiser, smarter, or otherwise higher, and use that as a form of righteous condemnation of others who do not do as we do, but also to take things we experience or encounter and incorrectly assume they apply universally, or even much more common than they do.

    It's made worse by certain groups inventing, (and often outright falsifying), terms like "privilege", which can be extremely offensive and assumes a lie that other people's troubles are less than your own, if not outright blaming others. There was, for example, an article some time ago that basically referred to white men playing the game of life "on safe mode", because they couldn't possibly deal with the stuff that non-white, non-male, non-straight folks had to endure. So like I was saying, some forms of bigotry are viewed by some as acceptable, if not encouraged.

    It's incompetence like that person in the crowd trying to force their intolerance on the crowd and the panel staff, who wanted to try to pinpoint one aspect of the game, but patently ignored other, much more major similar concepts like say the Black Furies that basically contradict their entire point. I mean, come on, hat's more sexist and extremist, a group that tends not to select members from a sex or a group that outright slaughters a sex, abandons their own children if they are born with the wrong junk, and makes it a religious practice to kill a member of one gender periodically?

    PS: Just for the record, I'd absolutely love a book about Jews kicking ass with special cool kabbalah powers. Take my money. :P

    (In all honesty and fairness, I can see your point, if it's written from the perspective of the Nazi's, but, even then, that still seems pretty damn awesome, and I want it.)
    Last edited by Beckett; 10-04-2016, 09:14 PM.

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  • Aya Tari
    replied
    Sexism and racism are everywhere though. I do agree that PC tendencies tend to protect bigots and that bigotry can only be destroyed when it is constantly exposed to the light. Bigotry should be exposed for the evil that it is and, because of its dark nature, the WoD is an ideal vehicle for exposing bigotry so it can be destroyed.

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  • Omegaphallic
    replied
    Also that activist who kept asking the same question basically again, and again had so much obvious hatred for white men, it was thick in her voice, which was thick with distain. It was clear she was a bigot.

    But so where some of the men in the audience, but at least they weren't repetitive about it.

    My concern is they won't really explore important social issues with any complexity, but rather just allow it all to deevolve into a one sided MSM PC lecture, without questioning any of it at all, which will alienate people who aren't bigoted, but don't like an overly simplifed perpective that vilifies an entire gender unfairly, while protraying the female gender as saintly victims.

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  • Omegaphallic
    replied
    Originally posted by Fat Larry View Post

    I don't "hang in circles." I was referring to actually speaking to people in person, not social media. I've seen references to "white privelege" on social media (which I don't fully agree with either). I also don't paint with a broad brush.

    If you're playing with a group of assholes, find another group to play with.

    I treat people differently on a case by case basis. And I too, have owned the majority of WW books at some point or another. Found most of them to be pretty respectful and inclusive 99% of the time. I could gripe about more Hispanic representation(which I am), but that's getting picky.

    I found her comments strange. I haven't seen "that crap" in a game, save for Gypsies. One book. Out of hundreds.

    If she was experiencing racism and sexism, then she wasn't finding it in Onyx Path books.

    She needs to find a NEW GROUP.

    And for what its worth; I liked Martin's comments. He's right. Sometimes, there's a bit of difficulty in his words due to him not being a native English speaker. But you knew that.
    Activists like her always finds sexism and racism all around them, being quick to smear others with that based on flimsy excuses and none at all, because they can't see naunce, only oppressor and oppressed, a world in which facts are irrelivant.

    I do agree the Ravnos were offensive and bigoted against the Roma, which is why CoD went with Devas instead who are more interesting.

    But as a rule they've been extremely inclusive.

    And historically taking few women as vampires males sense, because society treated men as more disposible then women, because having a large population was vital for rebuilding a population then men were, a few men are required to make more people. Males were simply more replacable.

    In fact I can see rules in some vampire societies against feeding the on women of reproductive age and childern at all, it put your feed population at risk. Its not so different from how responsible hunters populations manage deer populations.

    In modern times it'd be completely unneeded, a vampire embracing a women or killing her during a feeding no longer risks causing a population crashes in the food population that vampires depend on, so a more egalitarian society is far more achievable in modern society, which would be very good for any man who doesn't want to be vampire food.

    I'll add nothing prevents a female player from having a male character or vis versa, it can be educational, I encourage people to try it at least once.

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  • PMárk
    replied
    Yeah, armor is strictly better in CofD 2e which is a plus. I'd raise the armors' soak rating in WoD too, that'd mostly solve the problem fine.

    Also, as I wrote above, i like the NWoD/CofD take on merits, it opens up a lot of options for the game, like the above example for special training. Or fighting styles, the Cofd 1e armory was among my favorite books on the topic. I always thought it is much better than the WoD's system for merits/flaws. Although other people felt it is too much D&D-ism with feats, but I had zero problems with that, i play D&D too. And the WoD merits are also "feats", just feats you can't take after chargen. Although I like flaws better than persistent conditions.

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  • Heavy Arms
    replied
    Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
    The problem with many combat systems (not just WW) is that offense is so strong and defense is so weak that the side that goes first in a combat tends to win.
    Again though, compare CofD 1e to CofD 2e in this example, and you'll find that the WW develop system is far worse about this than the OPP developed system (CofD 2e makes it much harder to ambush people, and having body armor would give the marines a huge edge instead of being a liability, and having superior training equate to access to things like the Trained Observer and Fire Fight Merits).

    Exalted 1e/2e, and Scion 1e (aka the WW developed ones) didn't have issues with weak defense. They had issue with "must have defense," where optimal defenses made you nearly impossible to kill, but you'd get splattered by offensive if you slacked off, didn't build well, or lost the resource attrition war. Something Exalted 3e and Storypath have taken great lengths to avoid.

    Originally posted by PMárk View Post
    I'd say the CofD combat system got altered in comparison to WoD.
    Again, I'm not trying to compare CofD to WoD. I'm trying to compared CofD 1e to CofD 2e.

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  • Aya Tari
    replied
    The Taliban comparison was based on a Dexterity 3/Firearms 3/Athletics 3 for Marines (not Force Recon, just normal Marines) and Dexterity 2/Firearms 2/Athletics 2 for the Taliban (remember, Afghan men start learning to shoot when they are six). The weapon is a standard rifle for the Taliban (Damage 8) while the armor for the Marine is Class IV (+4 soak, -2 armor penalty to Dexterity). Since the 'normal' range for a rifle attack is 200 yards (difficulty 6), that give ambushers a lot of options.

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  • PMárk
    replied
    Oh, I forgot to mention: connected to the armor question, one of the cases where I think criticism toward WoD and Vampire is fair is how Fortitude isn't working as intended. If one of the clan's signature ability is they're shrugging off attacks like a child's slaps in tantrum, they damn right should. Not just mundane weapons, but everything. The concept is quite scary, on par with speed and claws and living darkness IMO, so it should be stronger than it is. DA20 got it much better, but I think the best iteration so far is Requiem 2e, although it is a bit more complex. Ah, well, nothing comes freely. Maybe the best compromise is indeed DA20.

    But there's a lot of discussion about it on these boards, so I just wanted to mention it.
    Last edited by PMárk; 10-04-2016, 03:09 PM.

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