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  • Dancing with the spiral

    So yet again my google fu has failed me, is there any recent books (revised or more) that explains what happens when you dance with the spiral in its entirety or is it a GM fiat type of deal? Also, what happens if a kinfolk were to dance with the spiral and survive (unlikely I know because of the not being able to heal easily part, but certainly the mental trials would be no different right?)

  • #2
    Originally posted by Asssassin View Post
    So yet again my google fu has failed me, is there any recent books (revised or more) that explains what happens when you dance with the spiral in its entirety or is it a GM fiat type of deal? Also, what happens if a kinfolk were to dance with the spiral and survive (unlikely I know because of the not being able to heal easily part, but certainly the mental trials would be no different right?)
    Dancing the Spiral, as a Garou or Fera, is an instant and complete SAN-blasting. You're wholly corrupted, and possibly not very cogent anymore. It's a hand in your character sheet kind of deal.

    Kin don't have the spiritual or physical fortitude to dance it, and the mental trials are no less above a human's capability, on account of how they probably take longer than humans can manage with their merely human Stamina. That, and the rite only leads changers down. Humans and wolves are at the mercy of spiritual beings that will probably eat them.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

      Dancing the Spiral, as a Garou or Fera, is an instant and complete SAN-blasting. You're wholly corrupted, and possibly not very cogent anymore. It's a hand in your character sheet kind of deal.

      Kin don't have the spiritual or physical fortitude to dance it, and the mental trials are no less above a human's capability, on account of how they probably take longer than humans can manage with their merely human Stamina. That, and the rite only leads changers down. Humans and wolves are at the mercy of spiritual beings that will probably eat them.
      what about a mage with high life and spirit and such who is a kinfolk to the spirals?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Asssassin View Post

        what about a mage with high life and spirit and such who is a kinfolk to the spirals?
        Then it counts as entering a Caul and the mage becomes your everyday, pedestrian Nephandus.

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        • #5
          I think the most explanation you get from the rule books (not sure about the novels) that isn't ST-fiat is that if you survive, you become an Agent (capital A to distinguish from 'merely' becoming corrupt) of the Wyrm in some capacity, which may or may leave you playable (if a PC). This is what happened to the Nightmaster, who thought he could dance his way right to the Wyrm and kill it, and ended up with an officer's commission in its army, instead.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Yakecen-Sings View Post
            I think the most explanation you get from the rule books (not sure about the novels) that isn't ST-fiat is that if you survive, you become an Agent (capital A to distinguish from 'merely' becoming corrupt) of the Wyrm in some capacity, which may or may leave you playable (if a PC). This is what happened to the Nightmaster, who thought he could dance his way right to the Wyrm and kill it, and ended up with an officer's commission in its army, instead.
            Didn't Nightmaster go into the Abyss Realm instead?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

              Didn't Nightmaster go into the Abyss Realm instead?
              Yes. Yakecen-Sings is thinking of Hakaken I believe.

              But yea, to the OP: dancing the Spiral leaves you as an NPC if you survive. And your Spheres don't save you. You're going against a Supernal. (Assuming Werewolf cosmology). So either dead, or corrupt NPC. Neither option is good.
              Last edited by idpersona; 12-31-2016, 02:08 AM.


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              • #8
                Oop, my bad. I conflated the two since they're both Shadow Lords. Honestly, Nightmaster may as well have Danced the Spiral at this point in all but formality. But yes, I meant Hakaken.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Asssassin View Post
                  Also, what happens if a kinfolk were to dance with the spiral and survive (unlikely I know because of the not being able to heal easily part, but certainly the mental trials would be no different right?)
                  Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
                  Then it counts as entering a Caul and the mage becomes your everyday, pedestrian Nephandus.
                  M20 mentions that a Sleeper can Awaken if they go into a Caul. Thus, perhaps a Kinfolk (and non-Kinfolk) could become a Malfean Nephandi by Dancing the Black Spiral.

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                  • #10
                    Either way, you are an NPC. Dancing the spiral brought down an entire Garou Tribe and has probably been the end of many a proud Mage. It is a one way trip and no one comes back sane and uncorrupted.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                      Dancing the spiral brought down an entire Garou Tribe and has probably been the end of many a proud Mage. It is a one way trip and no one comes back sane and uncorrupted.
                      Lost Paths mentions that Ahl-i-Batin, due to their use of labyrinths for enlightenment, disagreed with the notion of the Black Spiral corrupting them. Of those who tried to test the notion, half became Barrabi, many become catatonic, a small handful disappeared upon reaching the center, and the rest became spies among the Nephandi.
                      This gives Ahl-i-Batin the dubious honor of being a group of Mages with a unique reason for Falling: "I wanted to prove that I can't Fall."

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Muad'Dib View Post

                        M20 mentions that a Sleeper can Awaken if they go into a Caul. Thus, perhaps a Kinfolk (and non-Kinfolk) could become a Malfean Nephandi by Dancing the Black Spiral.
                        But probably not. It'd be way too easy to manufacture Nephandi, otherwise, since cultists could just go around throwing people into Cauls.

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                        • #13
                          Or just walk the Spiral themselves.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                            Or just walk the Spiral themselves.
                            This is assuming that they've already come back from their trip and are looking for fresh meat.

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                            • #15
                              It would be worth it to cultists even if only 1% of the people survived because 100 innocents dying is a cheap price for 1 Nephandi. The success rate would have to be 0.01% or lower, as it would be too time consuming and difficult to toss 10,000 people in to just get 1 Nephandi.

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