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  • Throw Fomori at Me.

    Got a Mage game going in which Malfean Nephandi are doing a bunch of stuff to corrupt a park in the middle of a city.

    One of the mages peaked behind the gauntlet accidentally during a paradox hit and saw great black creatures, as great as bears with rows of sharp pointed teeth and glowing red eyes.
    Their forms where rather difficult to make out, so it's possible that their shape is a bit different from this, but that's the description I've given.

    At first I thought it could be some kind of corrupted beast, say a badger, but I wondered if it could be something a bit more interesting. I've been pouring through the Book of the Wyrm for ideas and have not managed to find something that would fit.

    So, people who know WTA much better than I. Can you think of suitable Fomori that would work here? Also, if you can think of other creatures, Banes or what have you, that would fit just as well, lay them on me.


    Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running UPDATE Chapter 22: The Morning After

  • #2
    Yeah, that is a bit vague. Using Possessed though, it would be possible to create a scary creature like that with the Powers of Armored Hide (2 PP), Bestial Mutation (5 PP), Blending (1 PP), Bulky (3 PP), Darksight (1 PP), and Natural Weapons (Fangs, Str+1 aggravated, 2 PP). It would also propably have the Taint of Spirit Reflection (-4 PP). It would be an Autonomy 8/10 Fomori and would not be nice to meet.

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    • #3
      You can also use one of the Mockery Breeds. Blanking on most of the names, but the apes (Yeren) or rhinos or cockroaches.

      Skull Pigs could also fit the description.

      Fomorachs (spelling might be off, I'm away from my books) are a possibility.

      Scrags are basically foot soldier Banes. They can be tough in a fight. If you want to be really screwed up, you can use a Nexus Crawler.

      Really, your description is vague enough to be any number of big scary monsters. Basically what Aya Tari did is just design a custom fomori. If you do that, you can tailor it to your group.


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      • #4
        Of course, you have to be careful when throwing Fomori at Mage groups because of the fragile nature of Mages. Even a relatively high Autonomy Fomori like the one that I created would be a challenge for a Mage group. It would attack during the night, under the cover of darkness, in order to maximize the benefits of its Blending and Darksight. It would likely have an average of Strength 5, Dexterity 5, and Stamina 5 (assuming a physically focused Fomori), would be able to soak bashing, lethal, and aggravated damage with a soak pool of eight dice due to Armored Hide, and would have 10 health levels due to Bulky. It also deals six dice of aggravated damage with its Natural Weapons.

        The creature would attempt to attack from darkness, depending on its Stealth to keep it from being detected, and disable the physically strongest member of the party first. Attacking from stealth, it could be likely rolling 12 dice on its ambush dice pool, which would give likely mean that it would beat any Mage by two successes. Its first attack would likely be with 12 dice against a surprised target from the rear and, without a possibility of a defense, the target of its first attack would be facing a 12 dice aggravated damage attack. Since aggravated soak is uncommon, the target would likely be reduced to Crippled (-5 dice on all actions). Of course, then the other four members of the Mage party can attack during the next turn, but they will likely suffer another two Crippled Mages before they can take down the Fomori.

        It is important to note that this is an Autonomy 8 Fomori, so it is a relatively weak Fomori. If the Mages faced an Autonomy 5 Fomori, they probably would be facing something that could kill most of them in one round. Fomori are meant to tangle with Garou, so they are overpowered when it comes to facing Mages in physical combat. Of course, Mages could hide from them, so an early warning is a good thing.

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        • #5
          Aya Tari Yeah. I will not be forcing my mages into direct combat with these things. Either I'll be weakening them up a bit, have them fight inefficiently, or allow the mage the first shot.

          The way I usually run Banes against my groups, or any spirit really, is by making them rely on charms more than they otherwise would in order to help the mages weaken them as well as replace damage with more interesting status ailments.
          If I do roll damage, then I'll decide what kind of damage after the roll. Small amounts will be Lethal, large amounts will be bashing. I'll change the description of the attack to match.
          That being said, if I want to make a point of how dangerous they are, I might allow up to 5 points Lethal in a single roll, though it really is context based.

          Are Fomori exclusively something of the mundane world, or can they be found lurking in the Penumbra? If they can't, then no big deal. Perhaps the Malfean Nephandi got them to cross the gauntlet for easier "storage" purposes.


          Keepers of the Wyck: A Chronicle I'm running UPDATE Chapter 22: The Morning After

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          • #6
            Two of my personal favorite Fomori tactics are using either Equilibrium or replicating the gift Thieving Claws of the Magpie to screw with PCs' ability to solve all their problems with magic.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Saikou View Post

              Are Fomori exclusively something of the mundane world, or can they be found lurking in the Penumbra? If they can't, then no big deal. Perhaps the Malfean Nephandi got them to cross the gauntlet for easier "storage" purposes.
              Fomori are possessed, which means they are spirits forcibly controlling a living mortal. Usually that means they are active in the physical world, but some breeds can traverse the Gauntlet. If you need them to be umbra-side it makes sense for them to be there.

              Are Fomori a big problem for wizards? They are barely Carpenter-esque speedbumps for my Garou pack.

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              • #8
                They can be devestating. I have TPKed a Mage group in one turn with one Autonomy 5 fomori.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                  They can be devestating. I have TPKed a Mage group in one turn with one Autonomy 5 fomori.
                  Huh. Was it some customized mega-attribute beast or what? Did you melt them all with one AoE ability? I know some Fomori are geared towards combat with werewolves but most of the ones out of BotW20th are pretty meh from a combat perspective (with a few noted exceptions).

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                  • #10
                    It was a breed that I made specifically for challenging Garou. The Mage group was supposed to convince a pack of Garou to help them but, when the Garou asked for the Mages to help them reclaim one of their Caerns from another group of Traditionalists, the Mages balked at the potential political cost and decided that they were going to go take on a Technocratic (actually Pentex) installation themselves. The Fomori who guarded the seemingly unguarded back door is listed below. He killed them in one turn just because he was bored.

                    “Johnny”

                    Attributes: Strength 8, Dexterity 7, Stamina 6, Charisma 2, Manipulation 2, Appearance 0, Perception 2, Intelligence 2, and Wits 6.

                    Abilities: Alertness 5 [4], Athletics 3, Brawl 5 [4], Intimidation 1, Subterfuge 1, Firearms 1, Stealth 3, Survival 3, Academics 1, Computer 1, Investigation 1, Occult 1, and Science 1.

                    Backgrounds: Contacts 3, Rank 1, and Resources 1.

                    Merits: Berserker [2], and Hidden Power [2]

                    Rage: 10 [7]

                    Willpower: 5 [2]

                    Permanent Autonomy: 5

                    Temporary Autonomy: 10

                    Powers: Armored Hide [2]; Berserker [3]; Bestial Mutation [5]; Blending [1]; Bulky [3]; Darksight [1]; Enhanced Attribute (Dexterity+2; Stamina+2; Wits+1) [10]; Immunity to Delirium [1]; Natural Weaponry (Fangs; Strength+1 Aggravated) [2]; Regeneration [7]; Unnatural Strength [6].

                    Taints: Addiction (Human Flesh; Weekly) [-3]; Derangement (Homicidal) [-3]; Harsh Tenant (Lethal Damage) [-3]; Spirit Reflection [-4]; Urges (Necrophilia) [-3].
                    Last edited by Aya Tari; 01-18-2017, 02:23 PM.

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                    • #11
                      So essentially you had him burn 5 Rage, take 6 actions and kill them because they didn't go along with your intended storyline?


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                      • #12
                        Nope, I gave them a few chances along the way to turn back, including having an important NPC Kinfolk Sorcerer bail because she wanted help from her Kin. I always try to give my characters three times to avoid a suicidal action. They insisted that they did not need her and blew off the Fomori threat.

                        What else is an ST supposed to do when their players disregard or ignore every warning and second chance? You can either change the plot to let them go through without any threats at all, which means that the players will never respect any conflict in future games, or you let the plot progress and let the chips fall where they fall. I let them create new characters with the same XP level for the new session (the B-team) and they were properly respectful of the fragility of Mages afterwards.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                          Nope, I gave them a few chances along the way to turn back, including having an important NPC Kinfolk Sorcerer bail because she wanted help from her Kin. I always try to give my characters three times to avoid a suicidal action. They insisted that they did not need her and blew off the Fomori threat.
                          Why in Gaia's name did you make a single encounter with a Fomori equal suicide? That is not a typical Fomori, and seems as if it was custom made to destroy your PCs. Unless you are powertripping hard, I can't imagine why you would purposefully make such a creature. I want to challenge my players too, but let's be honest, this thing isn't made to challenge the PCs, it is there to murder them if they don't jump through your carefully placed hoops.

                          Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                          What else is an ST supposed to do when their players disregard or ignore every warning and second chance? You can either change the plot to let them go through without any threats at all, which means that the players will never respect any conflict in future games, or you let the plot progress and let the chips fall where they fall.

                          No. No. This is so wrongheaded.

                          Having a specially crafted super-Fomori that can only be overcome with werewolf help isn't a plot worth preserving. It isn't even like they need to learn some mystic secret or anything, the creature is just a giant pile of meat with an assload of physical stats. There is no story there: the story is literally 'insanely scary possessed guards a door.' The only real conflict is the pass/fail of whether the PCs succeed at doing exactly what you want them to, i.e, get help from the local furballs. This is the definition of railroading, the GM saying 'do this or suffer.' I don't care how many 'chances' they were given, since all those chances amount to one big offer to hop back on the railroad and that doesn't actually constitute agency, but a lack thereof.

                          The players might need help if they are taking on an army of Pentex goons, or if a Bane Incarna attacks. They should not be punished with death for thinking that they can take on a single Fomori.

                          I wouldn't respect you if you designed some uber monster that killed everyone's character in one hit. Sounds more like you wanted to throw your weight around and show people who is the big cheese.
                          Last edited by The Laughing Stranger; 01-21-2017, 12:46 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Mages should never take it for granted that they can take on other supernatural creatures. They are human and, while they can temporarily modify themselves to become superhuman, do not have any innate supernatural capabilities. They are prey, not predators, and should never assume that they are anything but prey when they deal with other supernatural creatures. They should never get into fights with other supernatural creatures without proper preparation, should always avoid unnecessary fights with other supernatural creatures whenever possible, and should never fight fair against other supernatural creatures when they have to fight.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The Laughing Stranger View Post

                              Why in Gaia's name did you make a single encounter with a Fomori equal suicide? That is not a typical Fomori, and seems as if it was custom made to destroy your PCs. Unless you are powertripping hard, I can't imagine why you would purposefully make such a creature. I want to challenge my players too, but let's be honest, this thing isn't made to challenge the PCs, it is there to murder them if they don't jump through your carefully placed hoops.

                              No. No. This is so wrongheaded.

                              Having a specially crafted super-Fomori that can only be overcome with werewolf help isn't a plot worth preserving. It isn't even like they need to learn some mystic secret or anything, the creature is just a giant pile of meat with an assload of physical stats. There is no story there: the story is literally 'insanely scary possessed guards a door.' The only real conflict is the pass/fail of whether the PCs succeed at doing exactly what you want them to, i.e, get help from the local furballs. This is the definition of railroading, the GM saying 'do this or suffer.' I don't care how many 'chances' they were given, since all those chances amount to one big offer to hop back on the railroad and that doesn't actually constitute agency, but a lack thereof.

                              The players might need help if they are taking on an army of Pentex goons, or if a Bane Incarna attacks. They should not be punished with death for thinking that they can take on a single Fomori.
                              100% agreed.

                              Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                              Mages should never take it for granted that they can take on other supernatural creatures. They are human and, while they can temporarily modify themselves to become superhuman, do not have any innate supernatural capabilities. They are prey, not predators, and should never assume that they are anything but prey when they deal with other supernatural creatures. They should never get into fights with other supernatural creatures without proper preparation, should always avoid unnecessary fights with other supernatural creatures whenever possible, and should never fight fair against other supernatural creatures when they have to fight.
                              I have a feeling the majority of the players on the Mage forums will disagree with this.
                              And basically, you made sure to teach your Mage players that they are at the bottom of the Supernatural food chain. Even below the shock troops of another game line's antagonists.

                              I have to agree with The Laughing Stranger. I would lose respect for you as a ST after that and probably not play again. You even made the effort to hide said Fomori's supernatural nature from you players, what with the Hidden Power Merit. And then you seem to want to blame your players for daring to take one one guy guarding a door. If you want to teach your players to respect the world or antagonists or their own fragility, you can do so a number of ways without having "some guy" one shot them and make them write up new characters.


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