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  • Rage To remain Active

    If I'm a vampire who was making a Ambush attack against an elder Werewolf , I Made a Claw against the Elder's Neck to Decapicate him and Scored 14 Aggravated to His neck , And he Scores 1 Success on Rage difficulty 8.. Would he be able to survive this?

  • #2
    They would have their roll to soak and if they make a rage roll to remain active each success heals one level of damage. Depends on if you are making them "regen" the health levels beyond incapacitated or just starting from there. If it's the first they are dead, the second, very nearly dead.


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    • #3
      By the book, there are not Health levels beyond Incapacitated so the second option Lunar Falcon noted is probably the most in-line with the text as written. Given the limitations and risks of it, it's also the more fun option.

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      • #4
        I've seen it run either way, but by the books only 1 success should be necessary.

        If it helps, it only works that way once a scene.


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        • #5
          Yep, Rage Back counts up from Incap :-)

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          • #6
            But if that option is what it meant to be like you guys say , You can throw a nuke with probably a 10000 Aggravated And if they score 1 rage success diff 8 , They'd wakeup like nothing has happened maybe gain a scar or two ...
            However lets get to the topic , The guy i hit should've been decapicated from the Claw i gave to his neck no?
            He was on his breed form He couldn'tve soaked Aggravated in any matter So he took 14 Aggravated directly on the neck , And he should've healed 1 of these 14 Aggravated so he took 13 Aggravated in total shouldn't he be dead? Since his health levels are about 6-7?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mkjmn View Post
              But if that option is what it meant to be like you guys say , You can throw a nuke with probably a 10000 Aggravated And if they score 1 rage success diff 8 , They'd wakeup like nothing has happened maybe gain a scar or two ...
              However lets get to the topic , The guy i hit should've been decapicated from the Claw i gave to his neck no?
              He was on his breed form He couldn'tve soaked Aggravated in any matter So he took 14 Aggravated directly on the neck , And he should've healed 1 of these 14 Aggravated so he took 13 Aggravated in total shouldn't he be dead? Since his health levels are about 6-7?
              That's not how it works. You did sufficient damage (14) to tear his throat out and kill him. He seemingly goes down (decapitation is unlikely with Vampire claws). (Now they roll Rage since they're at Incap) The next round/action be bursts into Crinos in Frenzy, having healed up however many successes he got. There is more than 1 way to picture it. I was in a game with a similar situation (with a sword involved) and the ST described it as the wound healing as the blade passed through. Either way, same effect.

              Now with the Nuke example, the Garou either has nothing left to come back from (since he is likely disintegrated) or he tries to move, twitches and dies the next round from overwhelming radiation. Keep in mind that the Golden Rule can modify any situation. Generally for the sake of common sense or cinematics. I would also rule the Rage roll kind of hard to use when faced with a guillotine for example.


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              • #8
                Yeah, I generally agree with Id's reading. For the nuke you'd either be entirely vaporized or just take more damage the next turn anyway, killing you. As for decapitation, people always want to try and 'game' their damage. And I think this might be a ST call, but I'd have to read the specifics of the incap roll. Did you specifically take increased difficulty (+2 or +3) to target his throat? I'd really like to understand the mechanic of staying up with rage as well because everyone in the Vampire forum always wants to talk about how easy it is to kill a Werewolf for some reason. I could see it as said, 'claws pass through, but heal as you slash, keeping their head on. But with 14 damage, the ST could arguably rule it is enough to remove the head. Again, this without checking all the details on the Werewolf mechanic myself.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Monalfie View Post
                  Yeah, I generally agree with Id's reading. For the nuke you'd either be entirely vaporized or just take more damage the next turn anyway, killing you. As for decapitation, people always want to try and 'game' their damage. And I think this might be a ST call, but I'd have to read the specifics of the incap roll. Did you specifically take increased difficulty (+2 or +3) to target his throat? I'd really like to understand the mechanic of staying up with rage as well because everyone in the Vampire forum always wants to talk about how easy it is to kill a Werewolf for some reason. I could see it as said, 'claws pass through, but heal as you slash, keeping their head on. But with 14 damage, the ST could arguably rule it is enough to remove the head. Again, this without checking all the details on the Werewolf mechanic myself.
                  I think something is fuzzy with OP's math. I have played a 7th gen City Gangrel, and my character never did 14 levels of aggro with 1 swipe. Doing 14 health levels of damage seems quite unlikely unless you just assumed you hit with everything since this is an 'ambush.' A powerful vampire might have a pool of 14 dice to attack with, but that only yields half that number of inflicted damage levels on average plus strength. To deal 14 damage you are rolling approximately 28 dice to hit? What? And if this theoretical vampire is aiming for the neck, that is even less successes that translate into damage.

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                  • #10
                    So i will describe the situation and how it was happening , I got a 10th Brujah Who is a thrall to a demon his demon was in trouble as he asked his thrall (Me) To help him , I asked him where he is he told me his location as he told me the situation , As my Vampire was on his way , He was buffing all his physical attributes to the max as he knows he wants to be full ready when he encounters the sept of the werewolves , However My Vampire also activated some visages since he's a thrall on his way , He activated Extra limbs , And Demonic Claws , And the ability to block mental controls from anyone but his demon master , And he also activated His brawl ability from the visage -2 Difficulty for any brawl based roll , So after my Vampire who had 5 Celerity , 5 Potence and 6 Dexterity 6 Stamina 6 Strength went inside he tried ambushing the werewolves , Sadly i tried activating celerity or even using my extra limbs for extra actions but the ST said i cannot do it since it says it's only 1 action according to the book ... So i chose to attack the Strongest elder of the werewolves , I sliced his neck from his back difficulty was 8 Base (-2 From visage , -2 From being over his back ) I scored about 10 successes or something as i remember.. from 14 Dices diff 5 And i had auto Damage from potence as i spent 1 bp for automated potence damage so i had 10 Net + 6 Strength + 2 Neck + 2 Claws.. Which is 19 Dices and 5 auto aggravated over his neck... And i rolled the 19 Dices i scored 9 Successes + 5 (Auto) Gave me 14 Aggravated over his neck , He couldn't soak the damage since he was in his breed form , And he rolled rage to remain active , He scored 1 success.. He said it like this ((** As your claw hit his neck and leave his flesh would recover just leaving a scar over his neck. **)) And then the ST told me to roll initiative as the second turn takes place , I had the third highest initiative since most of the werewolves had spirit of fray +10 on initiative rolls so the Athro werewolf Cried "Protect the Elder" and then i declared investing 4 Celerity Action to claw the elder werewolf 4 times from celerity and three times from extra limbs total of 7 Claws and then the werewolf elder spent 6 rage (He had the total of 7) (And gnosis of 6) and declared To dodge it all... Where it clearly says that a
                    berserking werewolf would simply pick a target and hit it but all what he did was trying to dodge all my attacks , If there was anything wrong from that roleplay ... I wish you would tell me what's wrong from what he did , Waiting for your replies.

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                    • #11
                      Well, it's hard to call any particular issues with all that because crossover between three games is messy and going to involve a lot of iffy calls no matter what.

                      How things progressed after your ambush attack on the Elder seems... strange (also the werewolves can't spend more than half their rage in a turn, so 4 in this case), but like I said crossover can be weird.

                      In terms of actual decision making on the RP side of things, I can't really see the fault in anything.

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                      • #12
                        You're correct that the Garou should not be dodging if he's in the midst of a frenzy. Also, he shouldn't be spending 6 out of 7 rage. You're generally limited to half (rounded up), plus his extra actions are limited by the lower of his Dex or Wits. Not to throw him under the bus. (Edited to add: Whoops, his extra actions are limited by Dex in this case, not Wits, since he's in the middle of a frenzy.)

                        Now, that said, I personally would question some of the "pre-loading" of your abilities, as it sounded like that was mostly handled in a prior scene. Without digging through books and rules, many abilities last for a scene or less. Just at a glance, it sounds kind of powergamey. However, I'm just nitpicking. Much of that can be handled with good RP decisions, but you'd likely have to be hiding first to pull it off (rather than buffing on your way there, X scene(s) before), and I of course have to poke fun at a Brujah hiding in the shadows. <3 Don't take it to heart, though, I'm only teasing.

                        Regarding rage healing, as has been said before, your attack happens FIRST, and then the werewolf's rage heal roll happens NEXT. You dropped the Garou initially, no question there. Now that he's down, NOW he rolls his rage. It's a split second difference, but it matters. Soak is simultaneous, yes. But rage healing needs the damage to happen first, otherwise, what's healing? With that in mind, he only needs one success to stay alive.

                        If you can finish him off the next round, good for you.
                        Originally posted by Mkjmn View Post
                        he encounters the sept of the werewolves
                        But, truly, I think you have bigger problems to worry about.
                        Last edited by Wakuwa; 01-20-2017, 02:56 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Question, can the incap rage roll even heal agg damage caused by silver?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Monalfie View Post
                            Question, can the incap rage roll even heal agg damage caused by silver?
                            Yes, because Magic.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Monalfie View Post
                              Question, can the incap rage roll even heal agg damage caused by silver?
                              Rage healing isn't dependent on type of damage.

                              Mkjmn One thing I also forgot to add in my previous post: the Garou shouldn't be in a frenzy, unless something different is going on. He didn't get enough successes on his rage roll to frenzy, considering he only got one success. In that case, he can choose to dodge.

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