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Why Does DNA know more then the SAD?

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  • Why Does DNA know more then the SAD?

    something just struck me.


    The SAD is FBI's best response to the supernatural

    they've captured no live, or or undead specimens... dont even know the word Garou, and still arent certain that silver will work.

    DNA is a pharmacutical research company with delusions of grandeur.... and they have... captured live garou, managed to l earn a lot of things pentex would dearly love to know.

    limited only by their myopic research

    SAD HAS to be better funded... is their something im missing.



  • #2
    Gonna quote Max Brook's World War Z here:

    Bob Archer, Ex-CIA: "When you think about the CIA, you probably imagine two of our most popular and enduring myths. The first is that our mission is to search the globe for any conceivable threat to the United States, and the second is that we have the power to perform the first. This myth is the byproduct of an organization, which, by its very nature, must exist and operate in secrecy. Secrecy is a vacuum and nothing fills a vacuum like paranoid speculation... Hey, did you hear who killed so and so? I hear it was the CIA. Hey what about that coup in El Banana Republico? Must have been the CIA! Hey, be careful looking at that website, you know who keeps a record of every website anyone's ever looked at ever? The CIA... Hey, how did that crazy country get those nukes? Where was the CIA? How come all those people were murdered by that fanatic? Where was the CIA? How come, when the dead began coming back to life, we didn't know about it until they were breaking through out living room windows? Where the hell was the goddamn CIA?"

    The government isn't god. They fuck up, get stuff wrong, or just plain aren't paying attention to the real threat. Why do you assume that just because it is a governmental organization they can do stuff better? Hell, even funding isn't a good indicator of efficacy.

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    • #3
      From the looks of my research (the entire wiki page of it for what that's worth.) It looks like SAD has the downside of of basically any case even remotely considered supernatural being on their plate.So they'd also get to be stuck running around in circles and divided out amongst everything from a haunting that is actually just rats in the pipes to a case where spiral dancer and a nephandi got into a fight. So even with more funding they'd be spread out among more areas, not to mention as a known government entity with the job description of finding out if there is a masquerade I imagine every supernatural with interest in maintaining the status quo in that regard will occasionally work to undermine them.Of course politicians will probably go after funds from the idiots chasing big foot before anything else because it's easier to take funds from something as pointless as hunting made up monsters.

      DNA from the looks of it got lucky and an extremely green glasswalker broke in and got himself captured. Thus allowing a lot of study of a living subject which makes it easier to hunt others when you know what you're looking for. Also the Technocracy and Pentex do apparently indirectly fund them, so that helps with some of it.

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      • #4
        Also, a basic Doylist thing:

        SAD has grown to be a general force in the WoD to fulfill the "X-files" niche, thus they are constructed to juxtapose the power of federal government against its own bureaucratic issues to place SAD agents in a specific narrative role of having power and incomplete information in a dangerous and unpredictable way.

        DNA has always been a WtA specific antagonist. They need to be a threat to Garou, so they were constructed to have enough information to be one; while they're meaningless to other supernaturals. They would have issues with dealing with many of the Fera.

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        • #5
          Just to put things in perspective, FBI requested funding in 2017 is around $9.5 billion dollars. An SAD type division probably has a small fraction of that budget. I wouldn't be surprised if its budget is only around $100 million or so (although it would benefit from the FBI's overall resources).

          Merck & Co., the world's largest pharmaceutical company, has annual revenues of almost $40 billion, and an R&D budget between $5 to $10 billion in any one year. Most other large pharmaceutical companies are similar. Roche, Novartis, and Johnson & Johnson all spend around $8-10 billion in R&D as well. If you consider DNA to be something like one of these larger firms, then it obviously has resources that would dwarf the SAD in regards to research on the Garou.

          Now, if we are talking about smaller biotech companies, then revenue and R&D would be fall smaller. Revenue may be around $250 million with R&D around $50 million. R&D in these firms tend to be around 20% of revenue. Even here, they'd be compared well against the SAD.

          Personally, I wouldn't place DNA among the largest biopharmaceutical firms (it is supposed to be a privately owned company and thus not listed on any stock market), but I wouldn't place it as an average biotech firm. They clearly have lots of resources. They probably have several billion dollars in annual sales and thus an R&D budget of several hundred million dollars to almost a billion.

          DNA has clearly designated people with "genetic lycanthropic syndrome" as a major research objective, so we can imagine the funding specifically to this may take up between a quarter to half of the entire R&D budget. This could well be anywhere from $100 to $400 million just spent on capturing, holding, and researching Garou which is likely the entire SAD budget (which is spread out on everything) or several multiples of it.

          ​So depending on how big any individual ST wants to make DNA as a whole, it can easily be a serious threat.

          At the same time, if you wanted SAD to also be a serious threat in your chronicles, it wouldn't be hard to justify them having additional information as a result of a major breakthrough.

          Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
          DNA has always been a WtA specific antagonist. They need to be a threat to Garou, so they were constructed to have enough information to be one; while they're meaningless to other supernaturals. They would have issues with dealing with many of the Fera.
          Yep.

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          • #6
            it just felt like incongruity to me.



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            • #7
              SAD as a government organization is more likely to be infiltrated by supernatural types with a vested interest in keeping the supernatural hidden. There maybe one or two true seeker Mulders in the group, but mostly the agents are ghouls or kinfolk or mages.

              I mean look at how many PC concepts are law enforcement. Not as many PC want to play a member of a pharmaceutical company who wishes to exploit the supernatural.
              Last edited by wonderandawe; 01-29-2017, 04:34 PM. Reason: Auto correct didn't recognize kin folk.


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              • #8
                Even normal government types are probably more sympathetic to the supernatural than normal business types. First, g-types get paid whether or not they catch supernatural cratures, as long as they can clear the majority of their cases, so they have different motivations than b-types. Second, g-types really want someone to blame for the stuff they witness and are probably more open to the idea of the forces of evil being responsible for the horrors of life than b-types.

                What does that mean? It means a potential friend in the FBI, especially for Fera. Fera can sereptitiously give them info on the location and nature of fomori nests without breaking the Veil and give them info on the crimes of Pentex subsidiaries. While SAD would still be considered to be 'spooky', they would start earning some respect in the FBI if it starts to discover thousands of previously unknown criminals, especially if they discovered a previously unknown 'street drug' that horribly mutates and drives its users insane.

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                • #9
                  There is a short story in which Sam Haight trades all he knows about the garou for a clone of himself. Supposedly the organisation that made the clone is DNA (although not names in the story, irrc), so they would have the complete inside knowledge of a kinfolk (as of W20 Kinfolk terminology a kenning kinfolk) at their disposal.

                  Should be in "When will you rage?", iirc.

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                  • #10
                    Yeah, the Garou should really be getting their act together and burning DNA to the ground.

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