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Bone Gnawers and lower class among wolves

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  • #16
    Originally posted by WISDOMINCHAINS View Post
    Garou pack / military squad / police recruit class / street gangs/ college frats and sororities ....they all share one thing in common that transcends class and race etc......

    They harass, bully, and posture against the "lowest percieved or the mentally or physically weakest member(s)". This serves to strengthen and bond the group .

    Im not saying its the way the world should be , but it's the way the world is. That being said , in the world of darkness it should be even worse.

    Deserved or undeserved it matters little to humans and some animals , I can only imagine what it would be like for Garou in the WoD.
    Thing is, the captive pack structure is more akin to a prison than an actual squad formed for a purpose. The reason there is an omega in the first place, is that they cannot leave a dangerous situation. Plus, the groups engaging in the behaviour you listed (minus the garou pack) are based on a macho reliant culture. That is, proving ones masculinity is paramount to ones status. That is why homophobia is so common among street gangs, frat boys, and some police and military squads. Homosexuality often treated as a threat to ones masculinity and therefore status in the group. It isn't solely a male problem, of course, it is just more visible in men. It is not really something that is common behaviour if there is no stress to prove yourself. Hence why it is so brutal in prisons where the stress of being locked up is directed into violence for some.

    However, while some garou might be like this, there are many who aren't. Lupus are raised in families and don't encounter dominance until thet first change. Metis grow up in a society where might is right, but where generally there are also methods to handle proving oneself through challenges without a perceived status being hurt. And cultures of the tribes are varied.

    Main point of this thread, however, was that the revised tribebook painted the homelessness and lack of money of Gnawers and their kinfolk as their own fault.
    Last edited by Ana Mizuki; 02-06-2017, 07:16 PM.


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    • #17
      The Get of Fenris are probably the most patriarchal, followed by the Fianna. When you get away from those two Tribes, homophobia and misogyny start falling away pretty quickly. This is especially true if individuals are willing to contribute to the care of the children of the Tribe.

      For example, take the Silver Fangs. You would expect them to be patriarchal, but there is no reason for them to be because the most powerful noble on Earth is the Queen of England. Blood purity, rather than gender or sexuality, matters to them, and there is not much difference to them between a Bone Gnawer and a Fianna with Pure Breed 0. The Bone Gnawer might actually be preferable company because the Bone Gnawer would know her place in society and may be a useful servant.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
        The Get of Fenris are probably the most patriarchal, followed by the Fianna. When you get away from those two Tribes, homophobia and misogyny start falling away pretty quickly. This is especially true if individuals are willing to contribute to the care of the children of the Tribe.
        Even the Fenrir I'd say aren't that prone to it, unless they are mostly American born. Here in the north, women generally have always held a position of some equality. Given surviving here often means dealing with 5+ months of darkness combined with snow and cold, there really is no room to get that strict with roles and who decides.


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        • #19
          Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
          Yeah, I think the Fianna or Get of Fenris are much more represented in Appalachia myself because of the Celtic and Germanic bloodlines.
          Those were certainly represented as well in the old regional book. They tended to be more regular backgrounds though with the Bone Gnawers being specifically hillbillies - people living under persistent poverty and lack of infrastrcuture/amenities.

          Bone Gnawers should originally be the urban North African and West Asian Tribe (with the Silent Strides originally being the rural North African and West Asian Tribe).
          I personally prefer the tribe's origins to be in India because that is far closer to the rat's origin in Southeast Asia. If we want the Bone Gnawers to be an old tribe, they have to originate there. Later as they spread and became the litter runts of the tribes, their ethnic basis would have broken down fairly quickly. Personally I think that as the rat spread westward, the Bone Gnawers followed and planted the flag so that they were in the Roman Empire and Europe by the time of the caesars.

          The negative associations against the Tribe would arise from traditional European racism against non-European during the early 15th through early 20th centuries, and they were mistreated by the European Garou in America and Europe much like Europeans in America and Europe mistreated North African and West Asian immigrants during the same period (and anyone who denies racism from that period should just read the books written by authors of that period).
          I would put the origins of modern racism much later - late 17th century perhaps. There were antecedents of course, but they were much different from European beliefs in the 19th century. The Europeans were certainly culturally chauvinist (as were almost every other world culture), but the big distinguishing mark was religion, not race. There were Ethiopian priests at the Council of Constance in the early 15th century, and the color of their skin was utterly unimportant. The Ottomans weren't hated because they were seen as inferior, but because they were powerful. And when direct contact was made with the Far East, most Europeans understood they were in the presence of cultural and technological equals who were superior in certain ways. It wasn't until later when the gulf between European advancement and relative backwardness of the rest of the world that the Europeans began to invent reasons for that and true racism started to take hold. They certainly weren't alone though - the Arabs have a lot of negative writings on what they thought of sub-Saharan Africans too, and the Chinese had dim views of all barbarians. So I don't buy the idea that the Bone Gnawers were only held in ill esteem because of some kind of bias from one human culture.

          The Bone Gnawers are supposed to be the runts who feed last from the prey carcass. They were small and weak, so they sought help from a totem who was also small and weak yet flourished. So when they became a tribe, they decided their protectorate were the small and weak. And as who made up the small and weak changed, their protectorate and numbers included them.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
            The Get of Fenris are probably the most patriarchal, followed by the Fianna. When you get away from those two Tribes, homophobia and misogyny start falling away pretty quickly. This is especially true if individuals are willing to contribute to the care of the children of the Tribe.

            For example, take the Silver Fangs. You would expect them to be patriarchal, but there is no reason for them to be because the most powerful noble on Earth is the Queen of England. Blood purity, rather than gender or sexuality, matters to them, and there is not much difference to them between a Bone Gnawer and a Fianna with Pure Breed 0. The Bone Gnawer might actually be preferable company because the Bone Gnawer would know her place in society and may be a useful servant.
            If you are looking at human Kinfolk, Glasswalkers avoid it by modernization, and Striders avoid it by induction rather than a strong connection to their Kin.

            Shadow Lords and Striders though, are from the most openly mysoginistic and homophobic parts of the world, and it's not really a new thing. While the wolves wouldn't have huge issues, getting past the human aspects would be an uphill battle.

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